> I don't want to cause an argument but personally I really do shy away from
> deliberately annoying Christians (maybe the really fundamentalist types
> sometimes when they go on and on, and then I will argue, but they are not
> the majority thankfully). If I find that if we have something in common,
> either vegetarianism or veganism or if we share another strong belief for
> the betterment of this life for animals or people, then I can get on with
> some Christians and our differences can be put aside because many of them
> are actually very nice people and do care about some of the same issues as
I
> care about. I am almost certainly a humanist but do not want to let this
get
> in the way of cooperating with people who are like-minded in some ways.

> I like the idea of the "O Project" http://www.oproject.co.uk/
> What do people here think of this? It seems they want cooperation between
> Christians and Humanists for a change, I like that, the idealist in me
likes
> that very much.

> I would also like to get more involved in some human causes that are
almost
> entirely Christian-led, in particular pro-life and especially befriending
> women in crisis pregnancy, but I have unfortunately found that as an
openly
> "out" Bright/atheist/humanist there are many groups that do this type of
> work where they cannot welcome me to help because they only welcome those
> who share their faith (Care groups more than Life groups have this
attitude,
> and my most local one is a Care group while the nearest Life group do not
> have befriending type support set up). This is quite frustrating for me
> because it is an area where I really want to help! I even contemplated
lying
> and pretending I was a Christian just to get accepted to help on the
> practical side, if it helped women so they did not feel desperate enough
to
> abort their unborn babies! However I am not a good or convincing liar so
> decided against that strategy pretty quickly, I just knew it was doomed to
> fail.

> I am personally committed to reverence for life largely BECAUSE I believe
> this life is all we get (and same applies to other sentient species). My
> non-belief in anything supernatural or godly is completely at the heart of
> my vegan and also at the heart of my pro-life beliefs, and therefore is a
> positive belief in THIS life, and now my kids are in school I have a bit
> more time to do more for others.

> I am in contact with Feminists for Life and also the Atheist and Agnostic
> Pro-life League, but they cannot help me to get involved in a "real-life"
> way in the cause I care about, as they are US-based groups and all their
> active ppl are so few and far between.

> I am quite involved in veggie and vegan groups, both social and
occasionally
> activist, and as a humanist I do not find that I need any help or advice
on
> that, it is not really an issue as many seem not to be religious people
> within the movement, and those who are I can usually get on with OK, but
if
> anyone can advise on getting on better with Christians and convincing them
I
> am genuinely committed to some of their causes, especially prevention of
> abortion, please advise away as I am listening!

> I do not want to get into an abortion debate with those many humanists who
> disagree with me on the political side, but if anyone can help me to get
> involved in the practical and caring side while remaining a humanist, I
> would like to hear from you. I am not looking to get involved in protests
> outside abortion clinics, I know that is not the place for me. But those
> women who want to choose life but need support, those are the ones I would
> like to help, just as I would like to do by bit to save animals.

> Please mail me off-list if you prefer, that is fine with me.

> Love and liberation,
> Lesley

> -----Original Message-----
> From: vegetarian-humanist-group@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:vegetarian-humanist-group@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of HMurphy
> Sent: 02 January 2008 05:45
> To: vegetarian-humanist-group@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: NON-VEGETARIAN FOOD MAKES MUSLIMS VIOLENT

> Oh yes.  No its just that at the Humanist AGM a long standing Humanist was
> wearing a fish  badge he was talking to a friend of mine and I caught him
> saying that he hopes people do not take it that he is a Christian because
of
> this fish badge but I didn't see it very clearly - the badge I mean..  Of
> course some people go fishing but that wasn't the explanation as far as I
> could tell.  It is also used by the gay community but not as a badge
> although with all the reclaiming of insulting names at one time its a
> wonder!  But I can see it would be used ironically.

> Happy New Year

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephen" <step...@makessense.co.uk>
> To: <vegetarian-humanist-group@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 9:13 AM
> Subject: Re: NON-VEGETARIAN FOOD MAKES MUSLIMS VIOLENT

> > HMurphy wrote:
> > >  Why does Darwin have a fish for a symbol?

> > It is the Christians that have the fish symbol - they put them on the
> > back of their cars. Perhaps it means - beware a person with irrational
> > thoughts is driving this car.

> > Just to annoy them you can get these:

> > http://www.darwinuk.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=6