I'm vaguely aware of impending doom on the Overground, but amazed by the lack of publicity so far.
Hidden away on the Network Rail site[1], there are a selection of factsheets. One seems to suggest that Gospel Oak - Stratford will be closed from Christmas till April[2], the other says that Richmond - Stratford will be closed from Christmas till Easter[3].
These are pretty major closures, happening less than two months away, and the only hints from TfL that anything's going to happen at all are some cryptic clues on the Planned Works pages[4].
Any bets on when TfL are going to let passengers know what's actually happening? Does anyone know if it will be the whole line that's closing, or just the eastern section? And is there any information on when services will start running through from the ELL to Highbury?
> The press release which is clearly linked from your first link says > clearly what is going to happen through 2009 and in to 2010.
Yes but the first link (which I had seen) does *not* mention the full closure of the NLL between Stratford and Gospel Oak from Christmas through to April 2010 in its list of "The planned London Overground service disruptions starting in 2009". It omits the third bullet in para 6 of the PR. I'll accept that is more likely to be cock-up rather than conspiracy but it does matter to those of us who, for example, are already buying theatre titckets for 2010.
>> Any bets on when TfL are going to let passengers know what's actually >> happening?
> On past practice probably about 4-6 weeks before the major changes
> occur. Therefore I'd expect something imminently - say in the next 10 > days? There needs to be info out there well before Christmas > because people won't have a train service once they go back to work > in the New Year!
It is to the credit of TfL that their journey planner already seems to know the NLL is out for that period. It would be better though if it made some mention of the lack of that route. I can envisage people being a bit puzzled otherwise by the results of (for example) searching for Stratford-Highbury & Islington. Is there some threshold at which a closure becomes semi-permanent and so is not mentioned?
>> The press release which is clearly linked from your first link says >> clearly what is going to happen through 2009 and in to 2010.
> Yes but the first link (which I had seen) does *not* mention the full > closure of the NLL between Stratford and Gospel Oak from Christmas through > to April 2010 in its list of "The planned London Overground service > disruptions starting in 2009". It omits the third bullet in para 6 of the > PR. I'll accept that is more likely to be cock-up rather than conspiracy > but it does matter to those of us who, for example, are already buying > theatre titckets for 2010.
>>> Any bets on when TfL are going to let passengers know what's actually >>> happening?
> > On past practice probably about 4-6 weeks before the major changes >> occur. Therefore I'd expect something imminently - say in the next 10 >> days? There needs to be info out there well before Christmas >> because people won't have a train service once they go back to work >> in the New Year!
Through trains from Stratford to Richmond are in the train service database at least up to 5th February 2010.
In message <n9haf5l7pv34linvt6k1sgmrr0f6oho...@4ax.com> of Sat, 7 Nov 2009 10:03:13 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield <aoo...@dsl.pipex.com> writes
>On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:24:58 GMT, "neverwas" <notahasb...@all.all> >wrote:
>>It is to the credit of TfL that their journey planner already seems to >>know the NLL is out for that period. I
>It does? I can't the journey planner to recognise that the year 2010 >exists!
It changes the 2010 date to the corresponding date in 2009. ;)
I suspect a Journey Planner year should be a rolling period of about 12 months about the current month rather than the 12 months of the current calendar year.
>>> It is to the credit of TfL that their journey planner already seems >>> to know the NLL is out for that period. I
>> It does? I can't the journey planner to recognise that the year 2010 >> exists!
> Nor can I. ;( I even tried:
It's a fair cop 'guvs. I cocked up. It never occurred to me to pay any attention to the year.
<snip>
> I suspect a Journey Planner year should be a rolling period of about > 12 months about the current month rather than the 12 months of the > current calendar year.
I also see that the Journey Planner indicates that inf. about services over the Christmas period (including Christmas Eve) will be available mid-December. That seem to be rather a poor show for people wanting to plan now (including for instance booking journeys through London). Just out of interest, is it a matter of management still being in negotiation with unions/staff? -- R
I know a bit about what is going on in relation to the NLL works. The NLL closure was originally planned for 16 weeks starting after xmas, however this has now been delayed until mid february. The reason for the delay is that Network Rail have been unable to confirm closure dates, as they do not have the required signalling software ready for the new signalling between Camden and Stratford. If the route closes in mid febraury (20th) then the route would repeon in early june (16 weeks). The closure will still be between Gospel Oak and Stratford.
During the closure replacement buses will run Stratford to Hampstead Heath at 3 buses per hour. C Rd & Barnsbury won't be served. I would imagine they will be a bit busy, so good luck trying to get on them at Stratford in the morning! In addition the rail service will be reduced Willesden to Gospel Oak from 6tph to 4tph. The trains terminating at Gospel Oak will run at uneven headway so that trains for instance arriving at gospel oak arrive at xx.10, xx30, xx40 and xx00.
Not sure why this isn't being made public yet. Although as people say on here people like to know so that they can plan what they do. Appears in this case to be a NR issue, but this doesn't excuse TfL not keeping people informed. I expect their comms people are still trying to work out how to put the River Thames back on the tube map, so don't have time to worry about this!
There will be an xmas closure for 9 days over the xmas period on the NLL for work to be done as well.
neverwas wrote: >>>> It is to the credit of TfL that their journey planner already seems >>>> to know the NLL is out for that period. I >>> It does? I can't the journey planner to recognise that the year 2010 >>> exists! >> Nor can I. ;( I even tried:
> It's a fair cop 'guvs. I cocked up. It never occurred to me to pay any > attention to the year.
> <snip>
>> I suspect a Journey Planner year should be a rolling period of about >> 12 months about the current month rather than the 12 months of the >> current calendar year.
> I also see that the Journey Planner indicates that inf. about services > over the Christmas period (including Christmas Eve) will be available > mid-December. That seem to be rather a poor show for people wanting to > plan now (including for instance booking journeys through London). Just > out of interest, is it a matter of management still being in negotiation > with unions/staff?
What does happen with staff when a line is put out of service? What has also happened with staff from the East London Line and what will happen with them once the line goes back into service, which I understand to be 23 May 2010.
Paul Corfield wrote: > On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 11:31:40 GMT, "neverwas" <notahasb...@all.all> > wrote:
>> I also see that the Journey Planner indicates that inf. about services >> over the Christmas period (including Christmas Eve) will be available >> mid-December. That seem to be rather a poor show for people wanting to >> plan now (including for instance booking journeys through London). Just >> out of interest, is it a matter of management still being in negotiation >> with unions/staff?
> I doubt that is the reason. I've seen an internal notice outlining the > LUL plans - from memory nothing terribly serious and I expect the LUL > Real Time page will show quite clearly what is shut down for engineering > works on any given day. There is a 6 month look ahead list so this is > not a secret.
I heard about plans to shut down the line during the first quarter of this year.
In message <5MFJm.10862$s_4.8...@newsfe02.ams2>, "hounsl...@yahoo.co.uk" <hounsl...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>> I also see that the Journey Planner indicates that inf. about >>services over the Christmas period (including Christmas Eve) will be >>available mid-December. That seem to be rather a poor show for >>people wanting to plan now (including for instance booking journeys >>through London). Just out of interest, is it a matter of management >>still being in negotiation with unions/staff?
>What does happen with staff when a line is put out of service? What has >also happened with staff from the East London Line and what will happen >with them once the line goes back into service, which I understand to >be 23 May 2010.
In the case of the ELL, the LUL drivers were displaced to a 'depot of their choice'. I gather many (most?) chose to transfer to Leytonstone and have duly been trained there on the Central line. This has caused a large over-compliment there and some are now transferring to Stratford Market depot for the Jubilee.
Once the new ELL runs it will be operated by LOROL with their drivers. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email)
Steve Fitzgerald wrote: > In message <5MFJm.10862$s_4.8...@newsfe02.ams2>, "hounsl...@yahoo.co.uk" > <hounsl...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>> I also see that the Journey Planner indicates that inf. about >>> services over the Christmas period (including Christmas Eve) will be >>> available mid-December. That seem to be rather a poor show for >>> people wanting to plan now (including for instance booking journeys >>> through London). Just out of interest, is it a matter of management >>> still being in negotiation with unions/staff?
>> What does happen with staff when a line is put out of service? What >> has also happened with staff from the East London Line and what will >> happen with them once the line goes back into service, which I >> understand to be 23 May 2010.
> In the case of the ELL, the LUL drivers were displaced to a 'depot of > their choice'. I gather many (most?) chose to transfer to Leytonstone > and have duly been trained there on the Central line. This has caused a > large over-compliment there and some are now transferring to Stratford > Market depot for the Jubilee.
> Once the new ELL runs it will be operated by LOROL with their drivers.
I see.
What happens with drivers when a line is shut down for a day or two, such as the Victoria Line?
The closurse dates for the North London Line between Gospel Oak and Stratford are now approx. mid-February until end May 2010. These are still subject to change. However the closure period will be something of the order of 12 to 16 weeks. A revised service will run between Gospel Oak and Richmond/Clapahm Junction. Upon reopening, the NLL will use the northern pair of tracks (the No. 1 Lines) between Camden Road East Junction and Dalston Kingsland, including a revised platform layout at Caledonian Road and new platforms at Highbury and Canonbury. The old NLL platforms at Highbury and Canonbury will be closed for refurbishment and conversion for use by the East London Line when it is extended from Dalston Junction sometime between November 2010 and February 2011.
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