Those unstructured, 'loose ball bouncing around in the area' type goals are a bit unlucky when the opponents get the best of the breaks and score. But Liverpool have pulled off a few very late results with similar in the past ,as have all sides.
They should have won the game if decent chances mean anything. They played about as well as I expected this side to play, plenty of effort, not much finesse, lots of square cross field passes from the midfield.
Can they get through? Lyon would have to win that away game in Italy, but, having now qualified and judging by the way they played, last night, it looks unlikely. But, who knows? The master tactician of Europe has once before needed his players to overcome his Euro selection blunders and win 3 from 3. Now it's just 2 from 2 and hope! But....Rafa has been extremely fortunate in Europe in the past. Possibly his luck has run out?
The team they played last night now tops the group. A decent side, but it really reflects on how simple it should have been for a L'pool side of any reasonable quality to sail through to the last 16. And I still find Benitez's selections bewildering, particularly his choice of a starting partner for Torres..
Even Babel,( who had the ball about 6 times after he came on and only did one thing right) would have made more sense.
So........ unlikely that all 4 English sides will go though, but there is always a bright spot. After last nights final result we are at least spared all those idiotic posts about how fantastic a tactician Rafa is in bringing on the scorer.
> Those unstructured, 'loose ball bouncing around in the area' type goals > are a bit unlucky when the opponents get the best of the breaks and > score. But Liverpool have pulled off a few very late results with similar > in the past ,as have all sides.
> They should have won the game if decent chances mean anything. > They played about as well as I expected this side to play, plenty of > effort, not much finesse, lots of square cross field passes from the > midfield.
> Can they get through? Lyon would have to win that away game in > Italy, but, having now qualified and judging by the way they played, > last night, it looks unlikely. But, who knows? The master tactician > of Europe has once before needed his players to overcome his > Euro selection blunders and win 3 from 3. Now it's just 2 from 2 > and hope! But....Rafa has been extremely fortunate in Europe in the past. > Possibly his luck has run out?
> The team they played last night now tops the group. A decent side, > but it really reflects on how simple it should have been for a L'pool > side of any reasonable quality to sail through to the last 16. > And I still find Benitez's selections bewildering, particularly his > choice of a starting partner for Torres..
> Even Babel,( who had the ball about 6 times after he came on and only did > one thing right) would have made more sense.
> So........ unlikely that all 4 English sides will go though, but there > is always a bright spot. After last nights final result we are at least > spared all those idiotic posts about how fantastic a tactician > Rafa is in bringing on the scorer.
> Great goal though!
> LC
You are always telling us that the big teams are more or less guarenteed reaching the knockout stages, are Liverpool not big enough?
> > You are always telling us that the big teams are more or less > > guarenteed reaching the knockout stages, are Liverpool not big enough?
> Not so long ago Utd finished bottom and crashed out at this stage, were they > big enough?
We were shit that year and quite rightly slated the side for it, whilst you lot told us that big teams always got through.
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> "Lescor" <les...@btinternet.com> wrote in message > news:RNadnRwBnuC8Rm_XnZ2dnUVZ8vqdnZ2d@bt.com... >> Those unstructured, 'loose ball bouncing around in the area' type goals >> are a bit unlucky when the opponents get the best of the breaks and >> score. But Liverpool have pulled off a few very late results with >> similar >> in the past ,as have all sides.
>> They should have won the game if decent chances mean anything. >> They played about as well as I expected this side to play, plenty of >> effort, not much finesse, lots of square cross field passes from the >> midfield.
>> Can they get through? Lyon would have to win that away game in >> Italy, but, having now qualified and judging by the way they played, >> last night, it looks unlikely. But, who knows? The master tactician >> of Europe has once before needed his players to overcome his >> Euro selection blunders and win 3 from 3. Now it's just 2 from 2 >> and hope! But....Rafa has been extremely fortunate in Europe in the >> past. Possibly his luck has run out?
>> The team they played last night now tops the group. A decent side, >> but it really reflects on how simple it should have been for a L'pool >> side of any reasonable quality to sail through to the last 16. >> And I still find Benitez's selections bewildering, particularly his >> choice of a starting partner for Torres..
>> Even Babel,( who had the ball about 6 times after he came on and only >> did one thing right) would have made more sense.
>> So........ unlikely that all 4 English sides will go though, but there >> is always a bright spot. After last nights final result we are at least >> spared all those idiotic posts about how fantastic a tactician >> Rafa is in bringing on the scorer.
>> Great goal though!
>> LC
> You are always telling us that the big teams are more or less > guarenteed reaching the knockout stages, are Liverpool not big enough?
The big teams are given an easy ride into the ko stages. However they of course still have to turn up and win those games needed.
But of course you'll get knocked out if you are piss poor for 6 games no matter who you are.
> "Lescor" <les...@btinternet.com> wrote in message > news:RNadnRwBnuC8Rm_XnZ2dnUVZ8vqdnZ2d@bt.com... >> Those unstructured, 'loose ball bouncing around in the area' type goals >> are a bit unlucky when the opponents get the best of the breaks and >> score. But Liverpool have pulled off a few very late results with >> similar >> in the past ,as have all sides.
>> They should have won the game if decent chances mean anything. >> They played about as well as I expected this side to play, plenty of >> effort, not much finesse, lots of square cross field passes from the >> midfield.
>> Can they get through? Lyon would have to win that away game in >> Italy, but, having now qualified and judging by the way they played, >> last night, it looks unlikely. But, who knows? The master tactician >> of Europe has once before needed his players to overcome his >> Euro selection blunders and win 3 from 3. Now it's just 2 from 2 >> and hope! But....Rafa has been extremely fortunate in Europe in the >> past. Possibly his luck has run out?
>> The team they played last night now tops the group. A decent side, >> but it really reflects on how simple it should have been for a L'pool >> side of any reasonable quality to sail through to the last 16. >> And I still find Benitez's selections bewildering, particularly his >> choice of a starting partner for Torres..
>> Even Babel,( who had the ball about 6 times after he came on and only >> did one thing right) would have made more sense.
>> So........ unlikely that all 4 English sides will go though, but there >> is always a bright spot. After last nights final result we are at least >> spared all those idiotic posts about how fantastic a tactician >> Rafa is in bringing on the scorer.
>> Great goal though!
>> LC
> You are always telling us that the big teams are more or less > guarenteed reaching the knockout stages, are Liverpool not big enough?
This obviously comes with the assumption that these "big teams" have the appropriate good squads. It is not quite always the case and occasionally one of them will fail, as I think Man U did a few seasons back? But this is an exception. Arsenal are just about certain and Man U and Chelsea are already there with 2 still to play., a typical situation which just about sums up the artificiality of this method. Apart from the useful cash, none of these sides really need 2 meaningless games in the middle of a busy season. Meaningless?....oh no! In order to keep some late interest in those leagues, UEFA have that mini seeding which says that top teams will not be matched for the first last 16 legs, although we all know that meeting a side which finished second can be a stiffer task.
Liverpool not big enough? Big club insofar as being regulars in the top handful of the EPL. Big team?.....certainly not.
> Those unstructured, 'loose ball bouncing around in the area' type goals > are a bit unlucky when the opponents get the best of the breaks and > score. But Liverpool have pulled off a few very late results with similar > in the past ,as have all sides.
> They should have won the game if decent chances mean anything. > They played about as well as I expected this side to play, plenty of > effort, not much finesse, lots of square cross field passes from the > midfield.
> Can they get through? Lyon would have to win that away game in > Italy, but, having now qualified and judging by the way they played, > last night, it looks unlikely. But, who knows? The master tactician > of Europe has once before needed his players to overcome his > Euro selection blunders and win 3 from 3. Now it's just 2 from 2 > and hope! But....Rafa has been extremely fortunate in Europe in the past. > Possibly his luck has run out?
> The team they played last night now tops the group. A decent side, > but it really reflects on how simple it should have been for a L'pool > side of any reasonable quality to sail through to the last 16. > And I still find Benitez's selections bewildering, particularly his > choice of a starting partner for Torres..
> Even Babel,( who had the ball about 6 times after he came on and only did > one thing right) would have made more sense.
> So........ unlikely that all 4 English sides will go though, but there > is always a bright spot. After last nights final result we are at least > spared all those idiotic posts about how fantastic a tactician > Rafa is in bringing on the scorer.
> Great goal though!
Pathetic Les, truely pathetic.
I understand you being upset at the goal Luis Garcia scored but to make it a mission of your life to assasinate Rafael Benitez is sad.
Of course you will deny this, but when have you ever become so embroiled in football newsgroups? Since Liverpool won the EC in 2005? newsnet google says that is correct. We all know you are a Chelsea fan, i've known that since the days when you used to post on the horseracing newsgroup.
Christ a team goes through a tough time and you follow them like a swine flu epidemic.........not like Arsenal of the past few years who have won nothing but played "beautiful football" in handful of games whilst being out of the running by december........Arsene Wengers criticism shield must be indestructible........right?
Listen, give it a fucking break. Comment again at the end of the season, when your point may have an actual point..
On Nov 6, 10:52 pm, "Ren" <cyborgoXXXXX...@frontiernet.netXXXX> wrote:
> Christ a team goes through a tough time and you follow them like a swine flu > epidemic.........not like Arsenal of the past few years who have won nothing > but played "beautiful football" in handful of games whilst being out of the > running by december........Arsene Wengers criticism shield must be > indestructible........right?
But he's won league titles and european trophies which Benitez has never. Oh, wait...
> On Nov 6, 10:52 pm, "Ren" <cyborgoXXXXX...@frontiernet.netXXXX> wrote:
>> Christ a team goes through a tough time and you follow them like a swine >> flu >> epidemic.........not like Arsenal of the past few years who have won >> nothing >> but played "beautiful football" in handful of games whilst being out of >> the >> running by december........Arsene Wengers criticism shield must be >> indestructible........right?
> But he's won league titles and european trophies which Benitez has > never. Oh, wait...
The difference is that at Arsenal everyone has been realistic. They have planned long term and knew they needed to build the Emirates to compete in the long run. At the same time accepting that the investment in the new stadium would mean that transfer funds were limited for a number of years. Everyone accepted that they might not win anything for a while and just focused on CL qualification. That time is just about over and soon Arsenal will judged by trophies again.
At Liverpool there is no sign of a new stadium and Liverpool will be left behind financially for years to come. There is no realism, there is no long term planning...and no trophies either. It seems like too many people feel you are entitled to win something because you are the mighty Liverpool and if you just manage to field 11 players in a red shirt, the rest will come by itself.
> "Lescor" <les...@btinternet.com> wrote in message > news:RNadnRwBnuC8Rm_XnZ2dnUVZ8vqdnZ2d@bt.com... >> Those unstructured, 'loose ball bouncing around in the area' type goals >> are a bit unlucky when the opponents get the best of the breaks and >> score. But Liverpool have pulled off a few very late results with >> similar >> in the past ,as have all sides.
>> They should have won the game if decent chances mean anything. >> They played about as well as I expected this side to play, plenty of >> effort, not much finesse, lots of square cross field passes from the >> midfield.
>> Can they get through? Lyon would have to win that away game in >> Italy, but, having now qualified and judging by the way they played, >> last night, it looks unlikely. But, who knows? The master tactician >> of Europe has once before needed his players to overcome his >> Euro selection blunders and win 3 from 3. Now it's just 2 from 2 >> and hope! But....Rafa has been extremely fortunate in Europe in the >> past. Possibly his luck has run out?
>> The team they played last night now tops the group. A decent side, >> but it really reflects on how simple it should have been for a L'pool >> side of any reasonable quality to sail through to the last 16. >> And I still find Benitez's selections bewildering, particularly his >> choice of a starting partner for Torres..
>> Even Babel,( who had the ball about 6 times after he came on and only >> did one thing right) would have made more sense.
>> So........ unlikely that all 4 English sides will go though, but there >> is always a bright spot. After last nights final result we are at least >> spared all those idiotic posts about how fantastic a tactician >> Rafa is in bringing on the scorer.
>> Great goal though!
> Pathetic Les, truely pathetic.
> I understand you being upset at the goal Luis Garcia scored but to make it > a mission of your life to assasinate Rafael Benitez is sad.
> Of course you will deny this, but when have you ever become so embroiled > in football newsgroups? Since Liverpool won the EC in 2005? newsnet google > says that is correct. We all know you are a Chelsea fan, i've known that > since the days when you used to post on the horseracing newsgroup.
> Christ a team goes through a tough time and you follow them like a swine > flu epidemic.........not like Arsenal of the past few years who have won > nothing but played "beautiful football" in handful of games whilst being > out of the running by december........Arsene Wengers criticism shield must > be indestructible........right?
> Listen, give it a fucking break. Comment again at the end of the season, > when your point may have an actual point..
> Ren
Spot on Ren, the guy's a fucking tool. Even when other teams in the top 4 are doing badly he never does a hatchet job on them, it's always about Rafa.
> "Lescor" <les...@btinternet.com> wrote in message > news:RNadnRwBnuC8Rm_XnZ2dnUVZ8vqdnZ2d@bt.com... >> Those unstructured, 'loose ball bouncing around in the area' type goals >> are a bit unlucky when the opponents get the best of the breaks and >> score. But Liverpool have pulled off a few very late results with >> similar >> in the past ,as have all sides.
>> They should have won the game if decent chances mean anything. >> They played about as well as I expected this side to play, plenty of >> effort, not much finesse, lots of square cross field passes from the >> midfield.
>> Can they get through? Lyon would have to win that away game in >> Italy, but, having now qualified and judging by the way they played, >> last night, it looks unlikely. But, who knows? The master tactician >> of Europe has once before needed his players to overcome his >> Euro selection blunders and win 3 from 3. Now it's just 2 from 2 >> and hope! But....Rafa has been extremely fortunate in Europe in the >> past. Possibly his luck has run out?
>> The team they played last night now tops the group. A decent side, >> but it really reflects on how simple it should have been for a L'pool >> side of any reasonable quality to sail through to the last 16. >> And I still find Benitez's selections bewildering, particularly his >> choice of a starting partner for Torres..
>> Even Babel,( who had the ball about 6 times after he came on and only >> did one thing right) would have made more sense.
>> So........ unlikely that all 4 English sides will go though, but there >> is always a bright spot. After last nights final result we are at least >> spared all those idiotic posts about how fantastic a tactician >> Rafa is in bringing on the scorer.
>> Great goal though!
> Pathetic Les, truely pathetic.
> I understand you being upset at the goal Luis Garcia scored but to make it > a mission of your life to assasinate Rafael Benitez is sad.
> Of course you will deny this, but when have you ever become so embroiled > in football newsgroups? Since Liverpool won the EC in 2005? newsnet google > says that is correct. We all know you are a Chelsea fan, i've known that > since the days when you used to post on the horseracing newsgroup.
> Christ a team goes through a tough time and you follow them like a swine > flu epidemic.........not like Arsenal of the past few years who have won > nothing but played "beautiful football" in handful of games whilst being > out of the running by december........Arsene Wengers criticism shield must > be indestructible........right?
> Listen, give it a fucking break. Comment again at the end of the season, > when your point may have an actual point..
> Ren
Just to put you straight mate, My football newsgroup comments started after I discovered that such things existed, which was a few months after I got a computer and learned how to use it. If you really want to look at Google, you will find that my comments in other groups have bought the accusations, if that is the right word, of mostly being a L'pool fan in the MU group after many long posts regarding that club, and, very often a Man U fan here, along with being a fan of both in other groups at various times.
The reason for this is that others, maybe with good reason, think that any adverse comment has to be from a supporter of some other club. My comments on Wenger in the past ( which you have obviously missed) bought the same assumptions. I admit that I am not always completely impartial in my liking for teams which, for various reasons I would like to do well for a while, like Burnley this season, but that does not make me a supporter in the accepted sense of the word.
I certainly wanted Chelsea to do well because, as I said at the time, I liked the attitude of their manager and, like many others, I was absolutely pissed off with almost a decade of Arsenal/ Man U or Man U/Arsenal seasons in the EPL. Did that make me a fan when I would have been just as pleased if the Russian had backed Spurs or Man City or Birmingham?
The reason that I rarely post in the Chelsea group is that there is nobody at home to reply. About 12 football posts per month is hardly lively.
My comments on L'pool started after their amazing win in the CL final, as you will probably remember. I posted to add my congratulations and thoughts after that game and was amazed at the amount of credit being heaped upon Benitez who, to me, came out of the game with far less credit than his players after his first half dithering. I was almost alone in saying that Benitez had much to prove, the rest were treating him as a genius.
So started a long exchange, simply because my opinion of Rafa was so different from the Pool fans. Nothing else! No anti Liverpool bias. No deep dislike of Rafa. My arguments were not with him, they were with those blindly hopeful fans who would resort to "Rafa knows best" rather than be objective. You tended to be one of these.
'Rotation' the resting of key players in important games when you had nothing adequate to replace them with ,was defended as wise by you and others. To me it was nonsense in Rafa's position.
I won't go over his buying and selections again, many of which confirmed my doubts in his management skills. They are receiving plenty of airing elsewhere. But in the end Liverpool have ended up with Rafa carrying just about the biggest squad in the EPL, but only a few of which are up to the required standard, at least, the standard that the fans should rightly expect of him.
Now, it seems, many of my reservations about him over those years are, at last, being repeated by others. His eccentricities, which you just had to defend, simply because he was manager of Your Team, are being questioned. His record examined and commented on by ex players and the media. I don't expect you to say that my doubts about him were correct as this would involve too big a step back, but maybe they were?
True that all sides go through bad patches. Nobody could question it, or the fact that all managers find it hard to rectify the slump. But that fact alone avoids the question. Putting all false loyalty aside....judging Rafa simply by what he has had to spend and the advantages which came with the club he was at.......shouldn't Liverpool be in a far better position than they are in dealing with it? Shouldn't his 40 plus provide better options than he has after 6 seasons? Should the great clubs immediate future depend on the availability of 2 of those 40, plus the hope that a crocked £20m midfielder would eventually prove himself? In truth, this is exactly were Liverpool is at right now.
>> "Lescor" <les...@btinternet.com> wrote in message >> news:RNadnRwBnuC8Rm_XnZ2dnUVZ8vqdnZ2d@bt.com... >>> Those unstructured, 'loose ball bouncing around in the area' type goals >>> are a bit unlucky when the opponents get the best of the breaks and >>> score. But Liverpool have pulled off a few very late results with >>> similar >>> in the past ,as have all sides.
>>> They should have won the game if decent chances mean anything. >>> They played about as well as I expected this side to play, plenty of >>> effort, not much finesse, lots of square cross field passes from the >>> midfield.
>>> Can they get through? Lyon would have to win that away game in >>> Italy, but, having now qualified and judging by the way they played, >>> last night, it looks unlikely. But, who knows? The master tactician >>> of Europe has once before needed his players to overcome his >>> Euro selection blunders and win 3 from 3. Now it's just 2 from 2 >>> and hope! But....Rafa has been extremely fortunate in Europe in the >>> past. Possibly his luck has run out?
>>> The team they played last night now tops the group. A decent side, >>> but it really reflects on how simple it should have been for a L'pool >>> side of any reasonable quality to sail through to the last 16. >>> And I still find Benitez's selections bewildering, particularly his >>> choice of a starting partner for Torres..
>>> Even Babel,( who had the ball about 6 times after he came on and only >>> did one thing right) would have made more sense.
>>> So........ unlikely that all 4 English sides will go though, but there >>> is always a bright spot. After last nights final result we are at least >>> spared all those idiotic posts about how fantastic a tactician >>> Rafa is in bringing on the scorer.
>>> Great goal though!
>> Pathetic Les, truely pathetic.
>> I understand you being upset at the goal Luis Garcia scored but to make >> it a mission of your life to assasinate Rafael Benitez is sad.
>> Of course you will deny this, but when have you ever become so embroiled >> in football newsgroups? Since Liverpool won the EC in 2005? newsnet >> google says that is correct. We all know you are a Chelsea fan, i've >> known that since the days when you used to post on the horseracing >> newsgroup.
>> Christ a team goes through a tough time and you follow them like a swine >> flu epidemic.........not like Arsenal of the past few years who have won >> nothing but played "beautiful football" in handful of games whilst being >> out of the running by december........Arsene Wengers criticism shield >> must be indestructible........right?
>> Listen, give it a fucking break. Comment again at the end of the season, >> when your point may have an actual point..
>> Ren
> Just to put you straight mate, My football newsgroup comments started > after I discovered that such things existed, which was a few months after > I got a computer and learned how to use it. > If you really want to look at Google, you will find that my comments in > other groups have bought the accusations, if that is the right word, of
So you were bringing the accusations against Benitez when he was taking the La Liga title from Real Madrid and Barcelona? I really don't see that Les, because when you got a computer that is what he was doing, right?
> mostly being a L'pool fan in the MU group after many long posts regarding > that club, and, very often a Man U fan here, along with being a fan of > both > in other groups at various times.
I know you are a Chelsea fan.......you're not a manc, you are blue through and through, i'm not stupid.
> The reason for this is that others, maybe with good reason, think that > any adverse comment has to be from a supporter of some other club. > My comments on Wenger in the past ( which you have obviously > missed) bought the same assumptions. I admit that I am not always > completely impartial in my liking for teams which, for various reasons > I would like to do well for a while, like Burnley this season, but that > does > not make me a supporter in the accepted sense of the word.
Wenger has been at Arsenal for 13 years. He is a great manager but a great manager judged only on what he has done with Arsenal, right?
> I certainly wanted Chelsea to do well because, as I said at the time, > I liked the attitude of their manager and, like many others, I was > absolutely pissed off with almost a decade of Arsenal/ Man U or > Man U/Arsenal seasons in the EPL. Did that make me a fan when > I would have been just as pleased if the Russian had backed Spurs > or Man City or Birmingham?
You are a Chelsea fan, come on, stop playing fucking games. Enough is enough, stop lying and show your true colours.
> The reason that I rarely post in the Chelsea group is that there is nobody > at home to reply. About 12 football posts per month is hardly lively.
> My comments on L'pool started after their amazing win in the CL final, as > you will probably remember. I posted to add my congratulations and > thoughts > after that game and was amazed at the amount of credit being heaped > upon Benitez who, to me, came out of the game with far less credit than > his players after his first half dithering. I was almost alone in saying > that > Benitez had much to prove, the rest were treating him as a genius.
> So started a long exchange, simply because my opinion of Rafa was so > different from the Pool fans. Nothing else! No anti Liverpool bias. No > deep dislike of Rafa. My arguments were not with him, they were with > those blindly hopeful fans who would resort to "Rafa knows best" rather > than be objective. You tended to be one of these.
> 'Rotation' the resting of key players in important games when you had > nothing adequate to replace them with ,was defended as wise by you > and others. To me it was nonsense in Rafa's position.
> I won't go over his buying and selections again, many of which confirmed > my doubts in his management skills. They are receiving plenty of airing > elsewhere. But in the end Liverpool have ended up with Rafa carrying > just about the biggest squad in the EPL, but only a few of which are up to > the required standard, at least, the standard that the fans should rightly > expect of him.
> Now, it seems, many of my reservations about him over those years are, > at last, being repeated by others. His eccentricities, which you just had > to > defend, simply because he was manager of Your Team, are being > questioned. His record examined and commented on by ex players and > the media. I don't expect you to say that my doubts about him were correct > as this would involve too big a step back, but maybe they were?
> True that all sides go through bad patches. Nobody could question it, or > the fact that all managers find it hard to rectify the slump. But that > fact alone > avoids the question. Putting all false loyalty aside....judging Rafa > simply by > what he has had to spend and the advantages which came with the club > he was at.......shouldn't Liverpool be in a far better position than they > are > in dealing with it? Shouldn't his 40 plus provide better options than he > has after 6 seasons? Should the great clubs immediate future depend > on the availability of 2 of those 40, plus the hope that a crocked £20m > midfielder would eventually prove himself? In truth, this is exactly were > Liverpool is at right now.
> If you think this is biased or unfair, so be it!
> LC
I seriously didn't read the above, simply because i know it was an anti Benitez rant.........am i right?
Please tell me i was wrong........christ how can a single manager come in for so much critism?
On Nov 7, 10:58 pm, "Ren" <cyborgoXXXXX...@frontiernet.netXXXX> wrote:
> So you were bringing the accusations against Benitez when he was taking the > La Liga title from Real Madrid and Barcelona? I really don't see that Les, > because when you got a computer that is what he was doing, right?
Les thinks Redknapp and MOYES have more pedigree than Benitez.
> On Nov 7, 10:58 pm, "Ren" <cyborgoXXXXX...@frontiernet.netXXXX> wrote:
>> So you were bringing the accusations against Benitez when he was taking >> the >> La Liga title from Real Madrid and Barcelona? I really don't see that >> Les, >> because when you got a computer that is what he was doing, right?
I have little interest in Spanish league football, so, never comment on it.
LC
> Les thinks Redknapp and MOYES have more pedigree than Benitez.
Dead right. Far less liable to do silly things. Far more practical.
>>> "Lescor" <les...@btinternet.com> wrote in message >>> news:RNadnRwBnuC8Rm_XnZ2dnUVZ8vqdnZ2d@bt.com... >>>> Those unstructured, 'loose ball bouncing around in the area' type goals >>>> are a bit unlucky when the opponents get the best of the breaks and >>>> score. But Liverpool have pulled off a few very late results with >>>> similar >>>> in the past ,as have all sides.
>>>> They should have won the game if decent chances mean anything. >>>> They played about as well as I expected this side to play, plenty of >>>> effort, not much finesse, lots of square cross field passes from the >>>> midfield.
>>>> Can they get through? Lyon would have to win that away game in >>>> Italy, but, having now qualified and judging by the way they played, >>>> last night, it looks unlikely. But, who knows? The master tactician >>>> of Europe has once before needed his players to overcome his >>>> Euro selection blunders and win 3 from 3. Now it's just 2 from 2 >>>> and hope! But....Rafa has been extremely fortunate in Europe in the >>>> past. Possibly his luck has run out?
>>>> The team they played last night now tops the group. A decent side, >>>> but it really reflects on how simple it should have been for a L'pool >>>> side of any reasonable quality to sail through to the last 16. >>>> And I still find Benitez's selections bewildering, particularly his >>>> choice of a starting partner for Torres..
>>>> Even Babel,( who had the ball about 6 times after he came on and only >>>> did one thing right) would have made more sense.
>>>> So........ unlikely that all 4 English sides will go though, but there >>>> is always a bright spot. After last nights final result we are at least >>>> spared all those idiotic posts about how fantastic a tactician >>>> Rafa is in bringing on the scorer.
>>>> Great goal though!
>>> Pathetic Les, truely pathetic.
>>> I understand you being upset at the goal Luis Garcia scored but to make >>> it a mission of your life to assasinate Rafael Benitez is sad.
>>> Of course you will deny this, but when have you ever become so embroiled >>> in football newsgroups? Since Liverpool won the EC in 2005? newsnet >>> google says that is correct. We all know you are a Chelsea fan, i've >>> known that since the days when you used to post on the horseracing >>> newsgroup.
>>> Christ a team goes through a tough time and you follow them like a swine >>> flu epidemic.........not like Arsenal of the past few years who have won >>> nothing but played "beautiful football" in handful of games whilst being >>> out of the running by december........Arsene Wengers criticism shield >>> must be indestructible........right?
>>> Listen, give it a fucking break. Comment again at the end of the season, >>> when your point may have an actual point..
>>> Ren
>> Just to put you straight mate, My football newsgroup comments started >> after I discovered that such things existed, which was a few months >> after >> I got a computer and learned how to use it. >> If you really want to look at Google, you will find that my comments in >> other groups have bought the accusations, if that is the right word, of
> So you were bringing the accusations against Benitez when he was taking > the La Liga title from Real Madrid and Barcelona? I really don't see that > Les, because when you got a computer that is what he was doing, right?
>> mostly being a L'pool fan in the MU group after many long posts regarding >> that club, and, very often a Man U fan here, along with being a fan of >> both >> in other groups at various times.
> I know you are a Chelsea fan.......you're not a manc, you are blue through > and through, i'm not stupid.
>> The reason for this is that others, maybe with good reason, think that >> any adverse comment has to be from a supporter of some other club. >> My comments on Wenger in the past ( which you have obviously >> missed) bought the same assumptions. I admit that I am not always >> completely impartial in my liking for teams which, for various reasons >> I would like to do well for a while, like Burnley this season, but that >> does >> not make me a supporter in the accepted sense of the word.
> Wenger has been at Arsenal for 13 years. He is a great manager but a great > manager judged only on what he has done with Arsenal, right?
>> I certainly wanted Chelsea to do well because, as I said at the time, >> I liked the attitude of their manager and, like many others, I was >> absolutely pissed off with almost a decade of Arsenal/ Man U or >> Man U/Arsenal seasons in the EPL. Did that make me a fan when >> I would have been just as pleased if the Russian had backed Spurs >> or Man City or Birmingham?
> You are a Chelsea fan, come on, stop playing fucking games. Enough is > enough, stop lying and show your true colours.
>> The reason that I rarely post in the Chelsea group is that there is >> nobody >> at home to reply. About 12 football posts per month is hardly lively.
>> My comments on L'pool started after their amazing win in the CL final, as >> you will probably remember. I posted to add my congratulations and >> thoughts >> after that game and was amazed at the amount of credit being heaped >> upon Benitez who, to me, came out of the game with far less credit than >> his players after his first half dithering. I was almost alone in saying >> that >> Benitez had much to prove, the rest were treating him as a genius.
>> So started a long exchange, simply because my opinion of Rafa was so >> different from the Pool fans. Nothing else! No anti Liverpool bias. No >> deep dislike of Rafa. My arguments were not with him, they were with >> those blindly hopeful fans who would resort to "Rafa knows best" rather >> than be objective. You tended to be one of these.
>> 'Rotation' the resting of key players in important games when you had >> nothing adequate to replace them with ,was defended as wise by you >> and others. To me it was nonsense in Rafa's position.
>> I won't go over his buying and selections again, many of which confirmed >> my doubts in his management skills. They are receiving plenty of airing >> elsewhere. But in the end Liverpool have ended up with Rafa carrying >> just about the biggest squad in the EPL, but only a few of which are up >> to >> the required standard, at least, the standard that the fans should >> rightly >> expect of him.
>> Now, it seems, many of my reservations about him over those years are, >> at last, being repeated by others. His eccentricities, which you just had >> to >> defend, simply because he was manager of Your Team, are being >> questioned. His record examined and commented on by ex players and >> the media. I don't expect you to say that my doubts about him were >> correct >> as this would involve too big a step back, but maybe they were?
>> True that all sides go through bad patches. Nobody could question it, or >> the fact that all managers find it hard to rectify the slump. But that >> fact alone >> avoids the question. Putting all false loyalty aside....judging Rafa >> simply by >> what he has had to spend and the advantages which came with the club >> he was at.......shouldn't Liverpool be in a far better position than they >> are >> in dealing with it? Shouldn't his 40 plus provide better options than he >> has after 6 seasons? Should the great clubs immediate future depend >> on the availability of 2 of those 40, plus the hope that a crocked £20m >> midfielder would eventually prove himself? In truth, this is exactly >> were >> Liverpool is at right now.
>> If you think this is biased or unfair, so be it!
>> LC
> I seriously didn't read the above, simply because i know it was an anti > Benitez rant.........am i right?
> Please tell me i was wrong........christ how can a single manager come in > for so much critism?
Well, it's not really because of him, it is because he has so many defenders. Whether Rafa stays or goes is a matter for others. The fact is that, almost inevitably , any comments I have made about him on footballing grounds are treated as personal insults, or anti Liverpool. Seldom does anyone reply in the same terms. It is almost amusing. " No, we can't see the sense in rotation, but what the hell, Rafa knows best"
But you cannot continue to dodge the question of whether a reasonably good manager ,who started with the advantages which Rafa had at Pool, would now be carrying such a poor crop of selections whilst carrying about the largest playing staff in the Prem.? Would any such manager really have all his hopes based on the availibility of 2 of that 40 plus the hope that an unplayed new man would solve his problems?
It is an unavoidable question and it has bugger all to do with silly comparisons with SAF or Wenger's winning record.
But you are right. This commenting on Rafa's eccentricities is becoming boring, even for me. I shall cease from now. Rafa knows best! is my last word on the topic.
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