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Moral improvement, doctrine, and experiment
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A.G.McDowell  
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 More options 30 Sep, 19:57
Newsgroups: uk.religion.christian
From: "A.G.McDowell" <mcdowe...@mcdowella.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:57:49 +0100
Local: Wed 30 Sep 2009 19:57
Subject: Moral improvement, doctrine, and experiment
Yesterday I saw the section on the ninth commandment from J.John's DVDs
on the ten commandments. Part of that included suggestions on reforming
- he took from the Letter of James the lesson "don't gossip." However,
the most general message seemed to be. "God loves you. God forgives your
sins. Now make a fresh start and don't do that again."

I have two reactions to this:
1) Is this the best, most practical, advice for moral improvement that
has been found in 2000+ years of experience?
2) If somebody showed that it was not the best approach, would the
Christian religion consider this a great advance, an irrelevance, or a
blow against the doctrine of forgiveness of sins?

I am asking this question because I think I have seen just enough to
suggest that people have thought about this:
a) Near the start of Part Two of Benjamin Franklin's autobiography, he
describes how he kept a sort of score-card on himself, so that he did
not transgress without noticing it, and to motivate himself. This is at
least a proof of alternative approaches. (He claimed worthwhile
improvement from his previous condition, but not by no means
perfection).
b) I know that monasteries had codified rules. From memory, these were
framed as "do this; don't do this" rather than plans for increasing
willpower or using it more efficiently. Am I wrong? Have they considered
the problem?
c) I have read popular accounts of an experiment in which young children
are promised a second sweet if they can refrain from eating the first
for some time. Success there was shown to be predictive of future
success in life. Success there was also shown to flow from simple
strategies, such as placing the first sweet out of sight. At least some
experimentation is therefore being done, which may or may not agree with
any schemes born from religious inspiration.

When people were asking the question "what would persuade more people to
go to church," it occurred to me that expertise in self-discipline could
be valuable, if proven. The rich world is full of people who might
welcome help with restraint e.g. in eating and drinking. However, this
idea died when I considered the plausibility of several local ministers
as experts in attaining the ideal Body Mass Index :-).
--
A.G.McDowell


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Kendall K Down  
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 More options 6 Nov, 18:34
Newsgroups: uk.religion.christian
From: Kendall K Down <webmas...@diggingsonline.com>
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:34:11 GMT
Local: Fri 6 Nov 2009 18:34
Subject: Re: Moral improvement, doctrine, and experiment
In message <YA+KUUAto6wKF...@mcdowella.demon.co.uk>
          "A.G.McDowell" <mcdowe...@mcdowella.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Yesterday I saw the section on the ninth commandment from J.John's DVDs
> on the ten commandments. Part of that included suggestions on reforming
> - he took from the Letter of James the lesson "don't gossip." However,
> the most general message seemed to be. "God loves you. God forgives your
> sins. Now make a fresh start and don't do that again."

The advice you quote doesn't go into details of how to "not do that
again". If you find that keeping a score card is useful, good for you.
If you find that putting the temptation out of sight is better, do
that.

It would be invidious for the church to be too specific about how to
achieve victory over sin because a) everyone is different and what
works for one will not work for another; and b) God is quite capable
of guiding you without interference from the vicar.

God bless,
Kendall K. Down

--
================ ARCHAEOLOGICAL DIGGINGS ===============
|     Australia's premier archaeological magazine      |
|             http://www.diggingsonline.com            |
========================================================


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Michael J Davis  
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 More options 8 Nov, 11:59
Newsgroups: uk.religion.christian
From: Michael J Davis <mjduse...@trustsof.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 11:59:56 +0000
Local: Sun 8 Nov 2009 11:59
Subject: Re: Moral improvement, doctrine, and experiment
Kendall K Down <webmas...@diggingsonline.com> was inspired to say

But, Ken, sometimes God may *even* use vicars and preachers. Who knows?
;-)

Mike
--
Michael J Davis
http://www.trustsof.co.uk

<><
"We know that in *all* things God works for good in those
who love him and have been called according to his purpose."
Rom 8:28 (NIV)
<><


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Kendall K Down  
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 More options 8 Nov, 20:04
Newsgroups: uk.religion.christian
From: Kendall K Down <webmas...@diggingsonline.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:04:05 GMT
Local: Sun 8 Nov 2009 20:04
Subject: Re: Moral improvement, doctrine, and experiment
In message <5cIzrND8Kr9KF...@trustsof.co.uk.invalid>
          Michael J Davis <mjduse...@trustsof.co.uk> wrote:

> But, Ken, sometimes God may *even* use vicars and preachers. Who knows?
> ;-)

Very true - giving even more point to my remarks about not specifying
the "how".

God bless,
Kendall K. Down

--
================ ARCHAEOLOGICAL DIGGINGS ===============
|     Australia's premier archaeological magazine      |
|             http://www.diggingsonline.com            |
========================================================


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