Been running in mine for about a month now and really enjoying them.  I
would prefer to run fully barefoot but that would exclude me from nearly all
the trails that I enjoy running on so the VFFs are a reasonable compromise.

Ultimately I'd like to imitate the Tamahumara and run ultras in them but I'm
not quite ready for that. ;-)  Any of you ultra-boys (and girls)
experimenting with them?

Tim

Tim Downie:

Huh, when I took a trip in the Copper Canyon (the train ride is
magnificent (1), and staying a few days in Creel provides a window on
a section of Mexican people and culture entirely unlike what you'll
encounter in big cities and resort towns) I didn't see any Tarahumara
in FiveFingers.

I've considered getting a pair, but am so happy with the recent crop
of ~4 oz flats like the Piranha, Adizero PR, and Streak XC 2, don't
feel much incentive to push it another notch.

Plus the VFF look pretty silly, and the ladies already give me a hard
time for wearing toe socks.

What else do you wear / were you wearing before transitioning to the
VFF?

(1) Just, if you value your own life, don't eat the harmburguesa they
serve on the train.  Oof.  The other food is excellent but eating
ground meat in that country is a real risk.

news:04e4c858-7d84-4247-b9ec-7d3b9bfede14@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...

[I've considered getting a pair, but am so happy with the recent crop
of ~4 oz flats like the Piranha, Adizero PR, and Streak XC 2, don't
feel much incentive to push it another notch.]

Yeah but, it's not just about weight. It's about feel.  There are some very
light shoes about these days but I doubt any of them come near the VFFs for
providing the right feedback to help you run in the barefoot style.  Of
course I can't say for sure not having tried them but my Nike Vaporflys feel
like high heeled trampolines compared to the VFFs.

[Plus the VFF look pretty silly, and the ladies already give me a hard
time for wearing toe socks.]

Ineveitably being a fashion leader brings some unwelcome attention
sometimes. ;-)

[What else do you wear / were you wearing before transitioning to the
VFF?]

Regular road shoes , fell shoes, trail shoes and my Vaporflys.  Basically, a
variety depending on where I was running.

[(1) Just, if you value your own life, don't eat the harmburguesa they
serve on the train.  Oof.  The other food is excellent but eating
ground meat in that country is a real risk.]

The closest I've come to dying in your good country was after a spicy bean
burger so you can't always trust the meatless option!

Tim

On 10/19/2009 7:08 PM, Charlie Pendejo wrote:

Mizuno Wave Universe 2 & 3's are another great option.

pendejo:

Tim Downie:

Oh, I do understand that - and the low heels, relatively minimal
cushioning, and high flexibility are much bigger factors for me than
the weight.  Of course it's a nice bonus that they weigh almost
nothing.  I have no interest these days in, say, the Lunaracer which
aspires to pack much cush into little mass.  I don't want a lotta
cush.

I also understand that VFF is probably a substantial step closer to
barefoot.

Just saying, as long as I'm running enjoyably and free of injury,
that's far enough along the spectrum for me right now.

Does your hippiedom extend beyond barefootedness and into
vegetarianism, Tim?  Can one find vegan mock haggis in your land?

On 10/19/2009 3:07 PM, Tim Downie wrote:

I have been running in mine for a while now, after several weeks in them
I out grew them, my feet seemed to have widened.  Since I can't wear
them I had to switch back to my Wave Universe 3's.  I'm on the fence as
to whether or not I want to buy another pair of VFF's.  They were great
as a training tool but I feel that I know enough about what I should be
feeling as I run that I'm not so sure that I need them anymore.

The nice thing about the Vibrams was that it let your foot and toes
spread just like they do when you're barefoot which I think is an
important part of developing an efficient and injury free stride beside
the midfoot touch down.  The nice thing about the Mizuno Wave Universe 2
& 3's is that the top is a one piece mesh upper which allows your foot
to spread naturally also.  And since the midsole is also one piece with
absolutely no supportive junk in it, it flexes both widthwise and
lengthwise which is another feature if you want to have a natural stride.

I've been thinking a lot about barefoot running and honestly I think if
you've never done it, it can be a valuable training tool to become a
better runner.  However, barefooting isn't always practical, which is
why VFF's and lightweight flats are a good alternative.  I hesitate to
say which is better but I'll leave you with some food for thought:

After we all climbed out of our primordial soup, mastered fire and tool
making, the next thing we learned to do was make sandals, why? I'm
guessing that you just can't have the maximum range to safely explore
your surroundings without something on your feet.  We only evolved so
much before our brains developed the ability to compensate where
evolution was taking too long, so we didn't develop hooves like the
gazelle to travel 100's of miles barefoot, but that didn't stop us, we
just made some shoes thanks to our big brains.  So literally I think
barefooting will take you only so far outside the camp, if you want to
go to much further outside the camp you need to cover your feet with
something, otherwise you could be at a disadvantage if you come across a
sticky situation.

All and all the idea I think is to put something on your feet that
allows it to flex the way it's supposed to whether it be flats or VFF's,
and if you've never had the experience of walking around or running
barefoot, do it inside the "camp" where it is safe.

Eddie

On 10/19/2009 3:07 PM, Tim Downie wrote:

For the record, the sandals that the Tamahumara wear are thicker than
the Vibrams.

news:3580c20a-ab7f-49f5-a9f7-effbd6432448@l33g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...

Oh I'm always looking for new ways to get injured.;-)

Actually, it's more a case of satisfying an intellectual curiosity.  That
and a history of stress fractures, plantar fasciitis & other foot problems.

I'm not a vegi, on that occasion it was just boredom with the usual fast
food fare that was on offer, a decision I came to regret as I completely
missed the Grand Tetons whilst I was lying groaning on the back seat of the
car.

I sincerely hope that no such thing as vegan vegi haggis exists. ;-)

Tim

On Oct 19, 4:22 pm, Edward Edmonds <edward.edmo...@gmail.com> wrote:

From what I know, poverty drives them to a dump ans slice up old car
tires and add some lacing system. Even treadless bald tires sound
stiff. maybe the Copper Canyon has lot's of sharp objects on the
trails.

_d

I believe the rocks are pretty nasty.  I'm not trying to be a barefoot
purist, I think you have to choose your footwear dependant on the surface
but I'd like to master the barefoot style of running before running in a
shoe that lessens feedback from my feet & toes.

Tim

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Hungerdunger
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Just seen this post - there was a bloke at the Snowdon marathon on
Saturday wearing them, I don't know how he got on. The last few miles
are off road and a bit rocky and he was concerned about them.

I overpronate so badly the Brooks Adrenaline range are great for me.