Only CCBN could pull one off like this! At their AGM they’ve got a guest speaker from Stonewall (the gay rights group) to talk to them about discrimination. I’ve got nothing against gays you understand, but I would have thought that discrimination by clubs against them is trivial compared with what we straight singles have to put up with from most clubs (and especially CCBN affiliated ones!).
Unfortunately, I won’t be able to get to Kettering for the meeting but I do hope that when the discrimination debate really gets going there a few of the singles attending (whether straight or gay) will be putting the boot in hard on clubs like Sunfolk, Manchester Sun & Air, Merryhill, Oakwood, Cambridge Outdoor, Fiveacres and all the rest with membership policies known to be illegally biased against single people in general and not just gays, as well as berating CCBN to turn a blind eye to it all
rebust...@googlemail.com wrote: > Only CCBN could pull one off like this! At their AGM they’ve got a > guest speaker from Stonewall (the gay rights group) to talk to them > about discrimination. I’ve got nothing against gays you understand, > but I would have thought that discrimination by clubs against them is > trivial compared with what we straight singles have to put up with > from most clubs (and especially CCBN affiliated ones!).
> Unfortunately, I won’t be able to get to Kettering for the meeting but > I do hope that when the discrimination debate really gets going there > a few of the singles attending (whether straight or gay) will be > putting the boot in hard on clubs like Sunfolk, Manchester Sun & Air, > Merryhill, Oakwood, Cambridge Outdoor, Fiveacres and all the rest with > membership policies known to be illegally biased against single people > in general and not just gays, as well as berating CCBN to turn a blind > eye to it all
I know that 2 of those clubs have a number of single men in membership - Sunfolk and Fiveacres - so your statement is not correct.
rebust...@googlemail.com wrote: > Only CCBN could pull one off like this! At their AGM they’ve got a > guest speaker from Stonewall (the gay rights group) to talk to them > about discrimination. I’ve got nothing against gays you understand, > but I would have thought that discrimination by clubs against them is > trivial compared with what we straight singles have to put up with > from most clubs (and especially CCBN affiliated ones!).
> Unfortunately, I won’t be able to get to Kettering for the meeting but > I do hope that when the discrimination debate really gets going there > a few of the singles attending (whether straight or gay) will be > putting the boot in hard on clubs like Sunfolk, Manchester Sun & Air, > Merryhill, Oakwood, Cambridge Outdoor, Fiveacres and all the rest with > membership policies known to be illegally biased against single people > in general and not just gays, as well as berating CCBN to turn a blind > eye to it all
I know that 2 of those clubs have a number of single men in membership - Sunfolk and Fiveacres - so your statement is not correct.
news:59d7b402-ade9-468e-9131-0e713b0a8ce2@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com... Only CCBN could pull one off like this! At their AGM they’ve got a guest speaker from Stonewall (the gay rights group) to talk to them about discrimination. I’ve got nothing against gays you understand, but I would have thought that discrimination by clubs against them is trivial compared with what we straight singles have to put up with from most clubs (and especially CCBN affiliated ones!).
Unfortunately, I won’t be able to get to Kettering for the meeting but I do hope that when the discrimination debate really gets going there a few of the singles attending (whether straight or gay) will be putting the boot in hard on clubs like Sunfolk, Manchester Sun & Air, Merryhill, Oakwood, Cambridge Outdoor, Fiveacres and all the rest with membership policies known to be illegally biased against single people in general and not just gays, as well as berating CCBN to turn a blind eye to it all
=============== My experience of gay speakers talking about discrimination is that they talk about the nature of discrimination, how they have attempted to stop it and similar themes.
All of these are relevant in various degrees to how BN and clubs should behave - both to their existing and potential members and also to a potentially discriminatory outside world.
Although I cannot be there, I would expect his audience to be given plenty of food for thought and with a bit of luck some of it will hit bottom and bear fruit (to mix a few metaphors).
> Unfortunately, I won’t be able to get to Kettering for the meeting but > I do hope that when the discrimination debate really gets going there > a few of the singles attending (whether straight or gay) will be > putting the boot in hard on clubs like Sunfolk, Manchester Sun & Air, > Merryhill, Oakwood, Cambridge Outdoor, Fiveacres and all the rest with > membership policies known to be illegally biased against single people > in general and not just gays, as well as berating CCBN to turn a blind > eye to it all
Slightly OTT I know, but the clubs listed above -- erroneously or otherwise -- are not amorphous entities to be reckoned in the abstract.
A club's membership is comprised of human beings. A club's premises are comprised of bricks and mortar, lawned grounds, various facilities etc.
The financial upkeep of the latter is maintained thanks to revenue provided by the former.
If the former choose not to have single males on those premises, then that's an expression of individual and collective preference.
Though your post rails against discrimination, it seems to me that your own argument is in itself discriminatory, seeking as it so clearly does the nullification of an individual's right to exercise a preference for the kind of environment they wish to enjoy, and for which they pay.
news:59d7b402-ade9-468e-9131-0e713b0a8ce2@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com... Only CCBN could pull one off like this! At their AGM they’ve got a guest speaker from Stonewall (the gay rights group) to talk to them about discrimination. I’ve got nothing against gays you understand, but I would have thought that discrimination by clubs against them is trivial compared with what we straight singles have to put up with from most clubs (and especially CCBN affiliated ones!).
Unfortunately, I won’t be able to get to Kettering for the meeting but I do hope that when the discrimination debate really gets going there a few of the singles attending (whether straight or gay) will be putting the boot in hard on clubs like Sunfolk, Manchester Sun & Air, Merryhill, Oakwood, Cambridge Outdoor, Fiveacres and all the rest with membership policies known to be illegally biased against single people in general and not just gays, as well as berating CCBN to turn a blind eye to it all ----------------------------------------------- The idea to invite Stonewall was originated by the BNChange group (before it got 'killed off' by the EC's dinosaurs) as part of a move towards making CCBN in to a campaigning & representative organisation. Once it was booked etc.., it was too late for the EC to change it, though I'm sure that a number in Jurassic Park would have liked to do so. Regardless of the cause, Stonewall has been massively successful in campaigning on an issue they care about. Homosexuality was actually illegal when I was growing up, and so much frown upon by 'polite society' that it was never spoken of, other than in terms of disgust or sarcastic humour. Now we have men and women from all walks of life living openly Gay lifestyles, and with largely the same rights as everyone else. I know there are still some issues they'd like addressed, but when you compare the progress made by the Gay community for acceptance, compared with the non-progress of the Naturist community in the same time, there has to be something 'we' can learn from 'them' in terms of campaigning and changing attitudes. The idea isn't so much to talk about naturist Club's attitudes to singles etc., but about the whole world's attitudes to Naturism. As part of this, Naturists' own attitudes will no doubt be looked at, as a large element in the success of the Gay Rights movement was the willingness of some high profile homosexuals to 'come out'. Naturism needs naturists to 'come out' and stop acting as if there is something to be ashamed of, or frightened of. Naturism also needs an effective campaigning voice to carry the struggle forward. Whether this is to be CCBN or not depends on the members ultimately. -- Duncan Heenan
rebust...@googlemail.com wrote: > Only CCBN could pull one off like this! At their AGM they’ve got a > guest speaker from Stonewall (the gay rights group) to talk to them > about discrimination. I’ve got nothing against gays you understand, > but I would have thought that discrimination by clubs against them is > trivial compared with what we straight singles have to put up with > from most clubs (and especially CCBN affiliated ones!).
> Unfortunately, I won’t be able to get to Kettering for the meeting but > I do hope that when the discrimination debate really gets going there > a few of the singles attending (whether straight or gay) will be > putting the boot in hard on clubs like Sunfolk, Manchester Sun & Air, > Merryhill, Oakwood, Cambridge Outdoor, Fiveacres and all the rest with > membership policies known to be illegally biased against single people > in general and not just gays, as well as berating CCBN to turn a blind > eye to it all
I hope that CCBN and Naturists will learn something from this speaker, as there are many who presently discrimination against Naturism and Naturists. Stonewall have made significant moves to get the Gay community accepted, surly we can learn to do the same to get naturism better accepted.
Try to book a venue for a naturist event and see the number of additional requirements that suddenly are introduced. (Are all you members CRB checked, you cannot bring children to the venue etc etc.)
> I hope that CCBN and Naturists will learn something from this speaker, as > there are many who presently discrimination against Naturism and > Naturists. Stonewall have made significant moves to get the Gay community > accepted, surly we can learn to do the same to get naturism better > accepted.
> Try to book a venue for a naturist event and see the number of additional > requirements that suddenly are introduced. (Are all you members CRB > checked, you cannot bring children to the venue etc etc.)
Bizarre as it may seem, there are actually a number of naturists at one club who would like to see all club members CRB checked before they are allowed through the gates.
> rebust...@googlemail.com wrote: > > Only CCBN could pull one off like this! At their AGM they’ve got a > > guest speaker from Stonewall (the gay rights group) to talk to them > > about discrimination. I’ve got nothing against gays you understand, > > but I would have thought that discrimination by clubs against them is > > trivial compared with what we straight singles have to put up with > > from most clubs (and especially CCBN affiliated ones!).
> > Unfortunately, I won’t be able to get to Kettering for the meeting but > > I do hope that when the discrimination debate really gets going there > > a few of the singles attending (whether straight or gay) will be > > putting the boot in hard on clubs like Sunfolk, Manchester Sun & Air, > > Merryhill, Oakwood, Cambridge Outdoor, Fiveacres and all the rest with > > membership policies known to be illegally biased against single people > > in general and not just gays, as well as berating CCBN to turn a blind > > eye to it all
> I know that 2 of those clubs have a number of single men in membership - > Sunfolk and Fiveacres - so your statement is not correct.- Hide quoted text -
Probably people whose parents were/are members there, so not really an answer. In my experience both actively discriminate against single people from "outside".
rebust...@googlemail.com wrote: > On 14 Oct, 14:01, Suzanne Piper <s...@shabden.co.uk> wrote: >> rebust...@googlemail.com wrote: >>> Only CCBN could pull one off like this! At their AGM they’ve got a >>> guest speaker from Stonewall (the gay rights group) to talk to them >>> about discrimination. I’ve got nothing against gays you understand, >>> but I would have thought that discrimination by clubs against them is >>> trivial compared with what we straight singles have to put up with >>> from most clubs (and especially CCBN affiliated ones!). >>> Unfortunately, I won’t be able to get to Kettering for the meeting but >>> I do hope that when the discrimination debate really gets going there >>> a few of the singles attending (whether straight or gay) will be >>> putting the boot in hard on clubs like Sunfolk, Manchester Sun & Air, >>> Merryhill, Oakwood, Cambridge Outdoor, Fiveacres and all the rest with >>> membership policies known to be illegally biased against single people >>> in general and not just gays, as well as berating CCBN to turn a blind >>> eye to it all >> I know that 2 of those clubs have a number of single men in membership - >> Sunfolk and Fiveacres - so your statement is not correct.- Hide quoted text -
> Probably people whose parents were/are members there, so not really an > answer. In my experience both actively discriminate against single > people from "outside".
Is this all single people or specifically you, because the people I know did not have prior family connections?
>> I hope that CCBN and Naturists will learn something from this speaker, as >> there are many who presently discrimination against Naturism and >> Naturists. Stonewall have made significant moves to get the Gay >> community accepted, surly we can learn to do the same to get naturism >> better accepted.
>> Try to book a venue for a naturist event and see the number of additional >> requirements that suddenly are introduced. (Are all you members CRB >> checked, you cannot bring children to the venue etc etc.)
> Bizarre as it may seem, there are actually a number of naturists at one > club who would like to see all club members CRB checked before they are > allowed through the gates.
It's bizarre indeed!! Are they seriously suggesting that a CRB check actually *means* anything, other than that nothing is recorded against the person being checked. It certainly doesn't prove they are squeaky clean.
> rebust...@googlemail.com wrote: > > On 14 Oct, 14:01, Suzanne Piper <s...@shabden.co.uk> wrote: > >> rebust...@googlemail.com wrote: > >>> Only CCBN could pull one off like this! At their AGM they’ve got a > >>> guest speaker from Stonewall (the gay rights group) to talk to them > >>> about discrimination. I’ve got nothing against gays you understand, > >>> but I would have thought that discrimination by clubs against them is > >>> trivial compared with what we straight singles have to put up with > >>> from most clubs (and especially CCBN affiliated ones!). > >>> Unfortunately, I won’t be able to get to Kettering for the meeting but > >>> I do hope that when the discrimination debate really gets going there > >>> a few of the singles attending (whether straight or gay) will be > >>> putting the boot in hard on clubs like Sunfolk, Manchester Sun & Air, > >>> Merryhill, Oakwood, Cambridge Outdoor, Fiveacres and all the rest with > >>> membership policies known to be illegally biased against single people > >>> in general and not just gays, as well as berating CCBN to turn a blind > >>> eye to it all > >> I know that 2 of those clubs have a number of single men in membership - > >> Sunfolk and Fiveacres - so your statement is not correct.- Hide quoted text -
> > Probably people whose parents were/are members there, so not really an > > answer. In my experience both actively discriminate against single > > people from "outside".
> Is this all single people or specifically you, because the people I know > did not have prior family connections?- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Members of the naturist establishment, like you, seem to be fond of dismissing the singles discrimination debate in this kind of way. Just suggest obliquely that the complainant is some kind of social misfit whom no club would want anyway and then go on to suggest that what they’re saying is based solely on their own personal experiences and therefore has no value.
Sorry Sue, but that line of reasoning won’t work this time. I am actually a club member and I do talk to people when I’m there, including prospective single members!
Oh, and on a slightly different topic, I hope the Manchester Sun & Air delegate at CCBN’s AGM won’t get too distressed at the prospect of being in the same room as a gay activist. After all, they demonstrated a bit of good old fashioned homophobia a few years ago when they turned down a couple of lesbians simply on the grounds of their sexuality!
rebust...@googlemail.com wrote: > On 14 Oct, 22:06, Suzanne Piper <s...@shabden.co.uk> wrote: >> rebust...@googlemail.com wrote: >>> On 14 Oct, 14:01, Suzanne Piper <s...@shabden.co.uk> wrote: >>>> rebust...@googlemail.com wrote: >>>>> Only CCBN could pull one off like this! At their AGM they’ve got a >>>>> guest speaker from Stonewall (the gay rights group) to talk to them >>>>> about discrimination. I’ve got nothing against gays you understand, >>>>> but I would have thought that discrimination by clubs against them is >>>>> trivial compared with what we straight singles have to put up with >>>>> from most clubs (and especially CCBN affiliated ones!). >>>>> Unfortunately, I won’t be able to get to Kettering for the meeting but >>>>> I do hope that when the discrimination debate really gets going there >>>>> a few of the singles attending (whether straight or gay) will be >>>>> putting the boot in hard on clubs like Sunfolk, Manchester Sun & Air, >>>>> Merryhill, Oakwood, Cambridge Outdoor, Fiveacres and all the rest with >>>>> membership policies known to be illegally biased against single people >>>>> in general and not just gays, as well as berating CCBN to turn a blind >>>>> eye to it all >>>> I know that 2 of those clubs have a number of single men in membership - >>>> Sunfolk and Fiveacres - so your statement is not correct.- Hide quoted text - >>> Probably people whose parents were/are members there, so not really an >>> answer. In my experience both actively discriminate against single >>> people from "outside". >> Is this all single people or specifically you, because the people I know >> did not have prior family connections?- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
> Members of the naturist establishment, like you, seem to be fond of > dismissing the singles discrimination debate in this kind of way. Just > suggest obliquely that the complainant is some kind of social misfit > whom no club would want anyway and then go on to suggest that what > they’re saying is based solely on their own personal experiences and > therefore has no value.
> Sorry Sue, but that line of reasoning won’t work this time. I am > actually a club member and I do talk to people when I’m there, > including prospective single members!
> Oh, and on a slightly different topic, I hope the Manchester Sun & Air > delegate at CCBN’s AGM won’t get too distressed at the prospect of > being in the same room as a gay activist. After all, they demonstrated > a bit of good old fashioned homophobia a few years ago when they > turned down a couple of lesbians simply on the grounds of their > sexuality!
I was not dismissing the debate as I have long argued against discrimination and we do not discriminate in Shabden. But as I said above the two clubs I mentioned do have singles in membership who do not have prior family connections. Suzanne
> rebust...@googlemail.com wrote: > > On 14 Oct, 14:01, Suzanne Piper <s...@shabden.co.uk> wrote: > >> rebust...@googlemail.com wrote: > >>> Only CCBN could pull one off like this! At their AGM they’ve got a > >>> guest speaker from Stonewall (the gay rights group) to talk to them > >>> about discrimination. I’ve got nothing against gays you understand, > >>> but I would have thought that discrimination by clubs against them is > >>> trivial compared with what we straight singles have to put up with > >>> from most clubs (and especially CCBN affiliated ones!). > >>> Unfortunately, I won’t be able to get to Kettering for the meeting but > >>> I do hope that when the discrimination debate really gets going there > >>> a few of the singles attending (whether straight or gay) will be > >>> putting the boot in hard on clubs like Sunfolk, Manchester Sun & Air, > >>> Merryhill, Oakwood, Cambridge Outdoor, Fiveacres and all the rest with > >>> membership policies known to be illegally biased against single people > >>> in general and not just gays, as well as berating CCBN to turn a blind > >>> eye to it all > >> I know that 2 of those clubs have a number of single men in > >> membership - > >> Sunfolk and Fiveacres - so your statement is not correct.- Hide quoted > >> text -
> > Probably people whose parents were/are members there, so not really an > > answer. In my experience both actively discriminate against single > > people from "outside".
> Is this all single people or specifically you, because the people I know > did not have prior family connections?- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Members of the naturist establishment, like you, seem to be fond of dismissing the singles discrimination debate in this kind of way. Just suggest obliquely that the complainant is some kind of social misfit whom no club would want anyway and then go on to suggest that what they’re saying is based solely on their own personal experiences and therefore has no value.
Sorry Sue, but that line of reasoning won’t work this time. I am actually a club member and I do talk to people when I’m there, including prospective single members!
Oh, and on a slightly different topic, I hope the Manchester Sun & Air delegate at CCBN’s AGM won’t get too distressed at the prospect of being in the same room as a gay activist. After all, they demonstrated a bit of good old fashioned homophobia a few years ago when they turned down a couple of lesbians simply on the grounds of their sexuality! --------------------------------------------------------------- It may or may not be true that Club discrimination against singles is widespread, but the fact is that there have been very few formal complaints to CCBN by people who allege discrimination. So long as no one makes a real fuss, nothing much will change. I know that it may not suit everyone to take the issue up, but merely muttering about it and becoming resentful doesn't actually achieve anything. A few proper complains putting CCBN on the spot to actually do something might actually move matters on a bit. -- Duncan Heenan
> rebust...@googlemail.com wrote: > > On 14 Oct, 14:01, Suzanne Piper <s...@shabden.co.uk> wrote: > >> rebust...@googlemail.com wrote: > >>> Only CCBN could pull one off like this! At their AGM they’ve got a > >>> guest speaker from Stonewall (the gay rights group) to talk to them > >>> about discrimination. I’ve got nothing against gays you understand, > >>> but I would have thought that discrimination by clubs against them is > >>> trivial compared with what we straight singles have to put up with > >>> from most clubs (and especially CCBN affiliated ones!). > >>> Unfortunately, I won’t be able to get to Kettering for the meeting but > >>> I do hope that when the discrimination debate really gets going there > >>> a few of the singles attending (whether straight or gay) will be > >>> putting the boot in hard on clubs like Sunfolk, Manchester Sun & Air, > >>> Merryhill, Oakwood, Cambridge Outdoor, Fiveacres and all the rest with > >>> membership policies known to be illegally biased against single people > >>> in general and not just gays, as well as berating CCBN to turn a blind > >>> eye to it all > >> I know that 2 of those clubs have a number of single men in > >> membership - > >> Sunfolk and Fiveacres - so your statement is not correct.- Hide quoted > >> text -
> > Probably people whose parents were/are members there, so not really an > > answer. In my experience both actively discriminate against single > > people from "outside".
> Is this all single people or specifically you, because the people I know > did not have prior family connections?- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Members of the naturist establishment, like you, seem to be fond of dismissing the singles discrimination debate in this kind of way. Just suggest obliquely that the complainant is some kind of social misfit whom no club would want anyway and then go on to suggest that what they’re saying is based solely on their own personal experiences and therefore has no value.
Sorry Sue, but that line of reasoning won’t work this time. I am actually a club member and I do talk to people when I’m there, including prospective single members!
Oh, and on a slightly different topic, I hope the Manchester Sun & Air delegate at CCBN’s AGM won’t get too distressed at the prospect of being in the same room as a gay activist. After all, they demonstrated a bit of good old fashioned homophobia a few years ago when they turned down a couple of lesbians simply on the grounds of their sexuality! --------------------------------------------------------------- It may or may not be true that Club discrimination against singles is widespread, but the fact is that there have been very few formal complaints to CCBN by people who allege discrimination. So long as no one makes a real fuss, nothing much will change. I know that it may not suit everyone to take the issue up, but merely muttering about it and becoming resentful doesn't actually achieve anything. A few proper complains putting CCBN on the spot to actually do something might actually move matters on a bit. -- Duncan Heenan
On 16 Oct, 11:36, "Duncan Heenan" <duncanhee...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
<big snip - things were just getting too long to be comprehensible!>
> It may or may not be true that Club discrimination against singles is > widespread, but the fact is that there have been very few formal complaints > to CCBN by people who allege discrimination. So long as no one makes a real > fuss, nothing much will change. I know that it may not suit everyone to take > the issue up, but merely muttering about it and becoming resentful doesn't > actually achieve anything. A few proper complains putting CCBN on the spot > to actually do something might actually move matters on a bit. > -- > Duncan Heenan- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
As we now know, Sue’s “Plan A” for trashing anti-singles discrimination complaints, which she tried on this thread earlier, didn’t work here (unfortunately she’d run into a club member this time around - probably for the first time ever – and what’s more, a club member who’d subsequently been turned down by another club who knew about their existing membership when they applied!). I assume that you’re now her “Plan B”.
“Plan B” is to claim that we should make “formal” complaints rather than approaching the problem in a lower key and less disruptive kind of way by seeking informal resolution, that we should be deliberately disruptive and damage the reputation of naturism overall purely for our own sectional interests.
Get real Duncan please! All of us want naturism in Britain to have a good reputation (and that’s not the same thing as saying that British Naturism has a good reputation by the way, because it hasn’t). All we single people want is a fair deal, which is something we’re not getting at the moment.
I’m not minded to “go nuclear” at present and tell my MP and the various QUANGOs that are supposed to police discrimination that naturist clubs are smug, elitist nests of poisionous discriminators (even though it seems most them actually are) although in the long term I don’t rule it out. To do that now though would be to bring down on the discriminated the blame for the collapse of the discriminator, although I suppose maybe that’s what you and CCBN actually want to happen in order to deflect attention from its present shambolic organisational and financial situation.
<big snip - things were just getting too long to be comprehensible!>
> It may or may not be true that Club discrimination against singles is > widespread, but the fact is that there have been very few formal > complaints > to CCBN by people who allege discrimination. So long as no one makes a > real > fuss, nothing much will change. I know that it may not suit everyone to > take > the issue up, but merely muttering about it and becoming resentful doesn't > actually achieve anything. A few proper complains putting CCBN on the spot > to actually do something might actually move matters on a bit. > -- > Duncan Heenan- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
As we now know, Sue’s “Plan A” for trashing anti-singles discrimination complaints, which she tried on this thread earlier, didn’t work here (unfortunately she’d run into a club member this time around - probably for the first time ever – and what’s more, a club member who’d subsequently been turned down by another club who knew about their existing membership when they applied!). I assume that you’re now her “Plan B”.
“Plan B” is to claim that we should make “formal” complaints rather than approaching the problem in a lower key and less disruptive kind of way by seeking informal resolution, that we should be deliberately disruptive and damage the reputation of naturism overall purely for our own sectional interests.
Get real Duncan please! All of us want naturism in Britain to have a good reputation (and that’s not the same thing as saying that British Naturism has a good reputation by the way, because it hasn’t). All we single people want is a fair deal, which is something we’re not getting at the moment.
I’m not minded to “go nuclear” at present and tell my MP and the various QUANGOs that are supposed to police discrimination that naturist clubs are smug, elitist nests of poisionous discriminators (even though it seems most them actually are) although in the long term I don’t rule it out. To do that now though would be to bring down on the discriminated the blame for the collapse of the discriminator, although I suppose maybe that’s what you and CCBN actually want to happen in order to deflect attention from its present shambolic organisational and financial situation. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- So why criticize CCBN for doing nothing about 'discrimination' if you're not actually prepared to complain to them properly and give them the opportunity of doing something. Do you think they are mind readers? -- Duncan Heenan
> <big snip - things were just getting too long to be comprehensible!>
> > It may or may not be true that Club discrimination against singles is > > widespread, but the fact is that there have been very few formal > > complaints > > to CCBN by people who allege discrimination. So long as no one makes a > > real > > fuss, nothing much will change. I know that it may not suit everyone to > > take > > the issue up, but merely muttering about it and becoming resentful doesn't > > actually achieve anything. A few proper complains putting CCBN on the spot > > to actually do something might actually move matters on a bit. > > -- > > Duncan Heenan- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> As we now know, Sue’s “Plan A” for trashing anti-singles > discrimination complaints, which she tried on this thread earlier, > didn’t work here (unfortunately she’d run into a club member this time > around - probably for the first time ever – and what’s more, a club > member who’d subsequently been turned down by another club who knew > about their existing membership when they applied!). I assume that > you’re now her “Plan B”.
> “Plan B” is to claim that we should make “formal” complaints rather > than approaching the problem in a lower key and less disruptive kind > of way by seeking informal resolution, that we should be deliberately > disruptive and damage the reputation of naturism overall purely for > our own sectional interests.
> Get real Duncan please! All of us want naturism in Britain to have a > good reputation (and that’s not the same thing as saying that British > Naturism has a good reputation by the way, because it hasn’t). All we > single people want is a fair deal, which is something we’re not > getting at the moment.
> I’m not minded to “go nuclear” at present and tell my MP and the > various QUANGOs that are supposed to police discrimination that > naturist clubs are smug, elitist nests of poisionous discriminators > (even though it seems most them actually are) although in the long > term I don’t rule it out. To do that now though would be to bring down > on the discriminated the blame for the collapse of the discriminator, > although I suppose maybe that’s what you and CCBN actually want to > happen in order to deflect attention from its present shambolic > organisational and financial situation. > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > So why criticize CCBN for doing nothing about 'discrimination' if you're not > actually prepared to complain to them properly and give them the opportunity > of doing something. Do you think they are mind readers? > -- > Duncan Heenan
Read what I wrote!
"approaching the problem in a lower key and less disruptive kind of way by seeking informal resolution".
That doesn't involve clairvoyance on anybody's part, it just means you tell CCBN what's happening and expect them to do something about it, you don't "put them on the spot" and get vindictive about it (at least not to begin with!).
CCBN really do need to bite the bullet on this discrimination thing though, because it's only a matter of time before one of their clubs is bankrupted by an anti discrimination court case and then everybody's reputation will vanish. The issue's been rumbling on for over forty years, back then it wasn't against the law but now it is. CCBN needs to get its finger out and rather than asking gay activists how they gained public acceptance it should first be asking itself how it can gain single people (and according to the 2001 census that's almost one third of the UK population) acceptance within naturism.
> <big snip - things were just getting too long to be comprehensible!>
> > It may or may not be true that Club discrimination against singles is > > widespread, but the fact is that there have been very few formal > > complaints > > to CCBN by people who allege discrimination. So long as no one makes a > > real > > fuss, nothing much will change. I know that it may not suit everyone to > > take > > the issue up, but merely muttering about it and becoming resentful > > doesn't > > actually achieve anything. A few proper complains putting CCBN on the > > spot > > to actually do something might actually move matters on a bit. > > -- > > Duncan Heenan- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> As we now know, Sue’s “Plan A” for trashing anti-singles > discrimination complaints, which she tried on this thread earlier, > didn’t work here (unfortunately she’d run into a club member this time > around - probably for the first time ever – and what’s more, a club > member who’d subsequently been turned down by another club who knew > about their existing membership when they applied!). I assume that > you’re now her “Plan B”.
> “Plan B” is to claim that we should make “formal” complaints rather > than approaching the problem in a lower key and less disruptive kind > of way by seeking informal resolution, that we should be deliberately > disruptive and damage the reputation of naturism overall purely for > our own sectional interests.
> Get real Duncan please! All of us want naturism in Britain to have a > good reputation (and that’s not the same thing as saying that British > Naturism has a good reputation by the way, because it hasn’t). All we > single people want is a fair deal, which is something we’re not > getting at the moment.
> I’m not minded to “go nuclear” at present and tell my MP and the > various QUANGOs that are supposed to police discrimination that > naturist clubs are smug, elitist nests of poisionous discriminators > (even though it seems most them actually are) although in the long > term I don’t rule it out. To do that now though would be to bring down > on the discriminated the blame for the collapse of the discriminator, > although I suppose maybe that’s what you and CCBN actually want to > happen in order to deflect attention from its present shambolic > organisational and financial situation. > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > So why criticize CCBN for doing nothing about 'discrimination' if you're > not > actually prepared to complain to them properly and give them the > opportunity > of doing something. Do you think they are mind readers? > -- > Duncan Heenan
Read what I wrote!
"approaching the problem in a lower key and less disruptive kind of way by seeking informal resolution".
That doesn't involve clairvoyance on anybody's part, it just means you tell CCBN what's happening and expect them to do something about it, you don't "put them on the spot" and get vindictive about it (at least not to begin with!).
CCBN really do need to bite the bullet on this discrimination thing though, because it's only a matter of time before one of their clubs is bankrupted by an anti discrimination court case and then everybody's reputation will vanish. The issue's been rumbling on for over forty years, back then it wasn't against the law but now it is. CCBN needs to get its finger out and rather than asking gay activists how they gained public acceptance it should first be asking itself how it can gain single people (and according to the 2001 census that's almost one third of the UK population) acceptance within naturism. ------------------------------------------
And you should read what I wrote.
You clearly don't understand the nature of CCBN's EC. They will not do anything suggested in a gentle way to them, unless it's their idea. The only way you'll get any action on this is by formal complaints. Otherwise, all you'll get is denial that there's a problem, because they'll just say " We've not had any complaints". Make a formal complaint and you may get somewhere, don't and you won't. It may be regrettable, but that's the way it is.
To make a complaint you may need to 'come out' as a naturist of course, but only to CCBN, so where's the problem in that?
> <big snip - things were just getting too long to be comprehensible!>
>> It may or may not be true that Club discrimination against singles is >> widespread, but the fact is that there have been very few formal complaints >> to CCBN by people who allege discrimination. So long as no one makes a real >> fuss, nothing much will change. I know that it may not suit everyone to take >> the issue up, but merely muttering about it and becoming resentful doesn't >> actually achieve anything. A few proper complains putting CCBN on the spot >> to actually do something might actually move matters on a bit. >> -- >> Duncan Heenan- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
> As we now know, Sue’s “Plan A” for trashing anti-singles > discrimination complaints, which she tried on this thread earlier, > didn’t work here (unfortunately she’d run into a club member this time > around - probably for the first time ever – and what’s more, a club > member who’d subsequently been turned down by another club who knew > about their existing membership when they applied!). I assume that > you’re now her “Plan B”.
> “Plan B” is to claim that we should make “formal” complaints rather > than approaching the problem in a lower key and less disruptive kind > of way by seeking informal resolution, that we should be deliberately > disruptive and damage the reputation of naturism overall purely for > our own sectional interests.
> Get real Duncan please! All of us want naturism in Britain to have a > good reputation (and that’s not the same thing as saying that British > Naturism has a good reputation by the way, because it hasn’t). All we > single people want is a fair deal, which is something we’re not > getting at the moment.
> I’m not minded to “go nuclear” at present and tell my MP and the > various QUANGOs that are supposed to police discrimination that > naturist clubs are smug, elitist nests of poisionous discriminators > (even though it seems most them actually are) although in the long > term I don’t rule it out. To do that now though would be to bring down > on the discriminated the blame for the collapse of the discriminator, > although I suppose maybe that’s what you and CCBN actually want to > happen in order to deflect attention from its present shambolic > organisational and financial situation.
I was not trashing anti-singles discrimination complaints. Just querying one aspect of your particular complaint. having seen for myself the number of single people in membership of both Five Acres and Sunfolk Society the generalisation that they discriminate against singles is incorrect.
There may be many reasons why a club may refuse a membership from a particular individual - whether they be single, lone, part of a couple or part of a family unit. So being accepted by one club is not unnecessarily a criteria for acceptance by another. I have known a number of instances where this has happened - one may be that if a person is already a member of another club there could be queries as to how much part of the new club they are likely to become. I do know of one single man who was actually a member of about six clubs at the same time.
> I was not trashing anti-singles discrimination complaints. Just > querying one aspect of your particular complaint. having seen for > myself the number of single people in membership of both Five Acres and > Sunfolk Society the generalisation that they discriminate against > singles is incorrect.
< further snip>
> Suzanne Piper > (not hiding behind pseudonyms)
So far in this thread you seem to have confined yourself to defending only two of the clubs I originally castigated as having discriminatory membership policies. At the outset I wrote:
"I do hope that when the discrimination debate really gets going there a few of the singles attending (whether straight or gay) will be putting the boot in hard on clubs like Sunfolk, Manchester Sun & Air, Merryhill, Oakwood, Cambridge Outdoor, Fiveacres and all the rest with membership policies known to be illegally biased against single people in general and not just gays …”
Can I take it that, as a former president of CCBN, you are tacitly admitting that the four clubs I named over and above Sunfolk and Fiveacres are actually engaging in discriminatory practices?
(Hiding behind a pseudonym for very good reasons!)
On Oct 14, 2:21 pm, rebust...@googlemail.com wrote:
> Only CCBN could pull one off like this! At their AGM they’ve got a > guest speaker from Stonewall (the gay rights group) to talk to them > about discrimination.
the Two go gland-in-gland, you can't hafe a male nudist without the presence of hoamosexual intent. it's Only fitting a gay bloak what has come OUT is present.
On Oct 18, 6:59 pm, the14thdisciple <the14thDisci...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 14, 2:21 pm, rebust...@googlemail.com wrote:
> > Only CCBN could pull one off like this! At their AGM they’ve got a > > guest speaker from Stonewall (the gay rights group) to talk to them > > about discrimination.
> the Two go gland-in-gland, you can't hafe a male nudist without the > presence of hoamosexual intent. it's Only fitting a gay bloak what > has come OUT is present.
> love From 14
you said it good `14.....most guys in the camps are bi sexual as the straigt gay alone is too conspicuous.....most swinger couples are bi with both being bi in many cases......keep up the good stuff man we need more brit humor.....jz
|
