<gloom> WTF are they still messing around with an ugly POS nobody wants rather than putting the 1098S or last 998 engine into the late ST4S package and improving an already brilliant bike.
> <gloom> > WTF are they still messing around with an ugly POS nobody wants > rather than putting the 1098S or last 998 engine into the late > ST4S package and improving an already brilliant bike.
At the beginning of last year, Ducati marketing said they would "unveil 10 new models by 2010". So far we've had:
So that leaves us with two empty slots to fill for new model revisions. Looking at what Ducati have always done in the past, it wouldn't surprise me if we saw a smaller-engined Streetfighter as one of those, the obvious choice being the 848 engine.
I'm sure I also read that three of these releases would be all-new bikes rather than just updated models, but I can't find any reference to that atm. If that's true, then this last slot needs to be something new, as we've had the Streetfighter and the new Multistrada so far.
So will there be a new ST? It's certainly likely as there's a new engine for it, the 1198, and it's the last of the old models (excluding the Supersports) that needs an update.
But, then again, they may throw in a curve-ball and release a cruiser-like bike which is highly unlikely, IMHO, although rumours about a "Vyper" have been circulating for a while, and a similar thing happened with the Hypermotard. We may also see an updated SportClassic or even a SuperSport, but I would like to think that the new ST will be next, and that the SuperSport will come back in 2011 (or be announced next year) with the new Hyper 796 engine.
[1] Although the 1098 was available in late 2007, Ducati referred to it as part of their 2008 releases.
Why are they still messing around with the Multistrada concept? I've only seen two on the roads, seems like.
Unless they're a lot more popular on the continent?
I dunno, first they ditch the 916 styling for some abortion, then turn the Monster into some dog's breakfast. and now this.
I wish they'd produce a bike that returns to the Ducati roots: light, basic, simple. Like my 750SS, in fact, only a bit less Jurassic.
-- BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes! Try Googling before asking a damn silly question. chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
"The Older Gentleman" <totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk> escribió en el mensaje de noticias news:1j8vsq9.9m6m57xq8yx2N%
> antonye <anto...@ukrm.net> wrote: >> The new Multistrada that is: > http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/2010-ducati-multistrada-1200-leake > d-photos/ > Why are they still messing around with the Multistrada concept? I've > only seen two on the roads, seems like. > Unless they're a lot more popular on the continent?
NO. As in "no".
Target for the Multistrada prefer the BMW 650/800/1200 GS, by far. Or Suzuki V-Strom 650/1000 when budget is a must. Honda Varadero 1000 (based on the thirsty engine of the old VFR1000) was also popular to some extent.
antonye <anto...@ukrm.net> wrote: > o that leaves us with two empty slots to fill for new model > revisions. Looking at what Ducati have always done in the past, > it wouldn't surprise me if we saw a smaller-engined Streetfighter > as one of those, the obvious choice being the 848 engine.
If they want to attract people into the Ducati "thinG', they need more entry-level bikes.
Take the 848, maybe detune it a fraction, lob it into a basic trellis frame, cheapo suspension (if the frame's rigid enough, it'll still handle OK), no frills, no expensive CF or magnesium bits, no super-lightweight wheels, no floating radial brakes, and pitch the price right.
Then watch the pennies come rolling in.
-- BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes! Try Googling before asking a damn silly question. chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
Domènec <domenec.sos.val...@gmail.com> wrote: > "The Older Gentleman" <totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk> escribió en el > mensaje de noticias news:1j8vsq9.9m6m57xq8yx2N% > > antonye <anto...@ukrm.net> wrote:
> >> The new Multistrada that is: > > http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/2010-ducati-multistrada-1200-leake > > d-photos/ > > Why are they still messing around with the Multistrada concept? I've > > only seen two on the roads, seems like. > > Unless they're a lot more popular on the continent?
> NO. As in "no".
> Target for the Multistrada prefer the BMW 650/800/1200 GS, by far. Or Suzuki > V-Strom 650/1000 when budget is a must. Honda Varadero 1000 (based on the > thirsty engine of the old VFR1000) was also popular to some extent.
Heh. My mate Niall had a Varadero. It did 30mpg: the thirstiest bike he's ever owned.
He now has a 1000 V-Strom. And a ZX9R.
-- BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes! Try Googling before asking a damn silly question. chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
> > Why are they still messing around with the Multistrada concept? I've > > only seen two on the roads, seems like.
> > Unless they're a lot more popular on the continent?
> > I dunno, first they ditch the 916 styling for some abortion, then turn > > the Monster into some dog's breakfast. and now this.
> All for the same reason. One word - Tamburini.
Hm. Good point.
-- BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes! Try Googling before asking a damn silly question. chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
I think Ducati wobbled a bit in the mid-2000s with their 999 model. The loss of Tamburini, taking the F4 design with him (which was going to be the 916 replacement) meant they had to come up with a stunning design to make an impact. Well, it did that alright but for all the wrong reasons. Yes, it's a stunning bike to ride but it's fugly too.
Terblanche tried to fill his shoes (given his success with the Supermono design) but obviously couldn't do it. Some of his designs are great though - I own a Hypermotard ffs - but it's taken him a while to get there. And that included the Multistrada, but ended up with the Sport 1000 too.
Ducati seem to have had a change of philosophy lately with their designs, more likely down to market forces more than anything else. The latest bikes are starting to go back to the design days of the 916. The Streetfighter has some really nice touches in it (although it's very reminiscent of Tamburini's Brutale design), the Hypermotard and even the new Monster is a good evolution of the design.
But don't forget that Tamburini also had his fair share of fugly bikes, including the Paso.
antonye wrote: >> <gloom> >> WTF are they still messing around with an ugly POS nobody wants >> rather than putting the 1098S or last 998 engine into the late >> ST4S package and improving an already brilliant bike.
> At the beginning of last year, Ducati marketing said they would > "unveil 10 new models by 2010". So far we've had: [...] > So that leaves us with two empty slots to fill for new model > revisions. Looking at what Ducati have always done in the past, > it wouldn't surprise me if we saw a smaller-engined Streetfighter > as one of those, the obvious choice being the 848 engine.
> I'm sure I also read that three of these releases would be all-new > bikes rather than just updated models, but I can't find any reference > to that atm. If that's true, then this last slot needs to be something > new, as we've had the Streetfighter and the new Multistrada so far.
I've read in several places that the economic downturn has lead to the manufacturers delaying investment - ie. going to a 3-year cycle rather than a 2-year one, or releasing updates rather than all-new models. In fact I'd be quite surprised if Ducati made good on what they were promising at the beginning of 2008.
> I've read in several places that the economic downturn has lead to the > manufacturers delaying investment - ie. going to a 3-year cycle rather > than a 2-year one, or releasing updates rather than all-new models. In > fact I'd be quite surprised if Ducati made good on what they were > promising at the beginning of 2008.
I would expect that a lot of the plans made for any new motorcycle(s) were started long before the economic downturn, so a lot of the investment would have already been made. Some of it may get delayed, but Ducati's fortunes have been on the upturn with the introduction of the 1098 and the new Monster.
If you look at what they're doing, and indeed what they've always done, is simply to take existing engines and put them into existing frame, bolting on existing front and rear ends but dressing them slightly differently to arrive at new models.
Very rarely does a whole new model come along; they all borrow from other existing models with a constant evolution rather than revolution. Every so often you'll get something new, like the 1098 motor, but even internally that is merely a bore & stroke change to the old 999 motor which was the same as the 998 motor, which was a head redesign of the 996, which was a bore & stroke change on the 916, which was a bore & stroke change of the 888 which was a bore & stroke change of the 815... etc etc.
Most of the big engine changes have been in the 2V family of engines, with bigger capacities and innovations such as the triple valve of the ST3 and the Dual Spark variation used in the later Multistrada and SportClassics, the Hypermotard and the new Monster 1100. But again, a lot of this is simply fitting a different crank (and usually from something else) to give a different stroke and upping the bore to make a bigger variant of an existing engine.
Although it's out of date after the 999 line, this table shows the reference points for most of Ducati's recent engines and how they've simply evolved: http://www.bikeboy.org/duccapacities.html
D'ja know whut, cowboy? Having seen the video, I'm actually warming to it quite a bit! It will probably need to be seen in the flesh to be certain though.
> D'ja know whut, cowboy? Having seen the video, I'm actually > warming to it quite a bit! It will probably need to be seen > in the flesh to be certain though.
Oh it looks far better than the current model but TBF the worst thing is the riding position. The new one looks nicer than a Tiger but I bet the Triumph engine aces that POS 1200.
The really key thing about the 4S is the 996 engine. The late ST3S is almost the same bike in terms of brakes, suspension and bodywork (all fabulous) but I wouldn't dream of owning one. It's that thing of having a proper touring bike with sprotbike handling/performance rather than a damp squib.
> Oh it looks far better than the current model but TBF the worst > thing is the riding position. The new one looks nicer than a > Tiger but I bet the Triumph engine aces that POS 1200.
Hmm... 150hp? Adjustable settings for Sport/Touring/Enduro/Urban mode which electronically adjust the suspension, power output, traction control and ABS?