Well actually it looks more like a bit of field that hasn't been cultivated for years. 4 poles (100 m2), all covered in couch grass. So far we have dismantled a couple of pallets and made a compost bin, but probably can't compost couch grass enough to kill it. Mares tail is also present in the area, so seeds are probably around waiting for anyone to expose some bare soil.
Cover the lot in plastic and leave it for a year??? (Are we allowed to do that??).
Potentially a lot of work here, important that any effort is most efficiently targeted.
In a word, glyphosate. And now in in industrial strength. BTW mares-tail is a semi-aquatic, you are more likely to have horse-tail q.v.. Bob Flowerdew recommends moving house if you have it.
> Well actually it looks more like a bit of field that hasn't been > cultivated for years. > 4 poles (100 m2), all covered in couch grass. > So far we have dismantled a couple of pallets and made a compost bin, but > probably can't compost couch grass enough to kill it. > Mares tail is also present in the area, so seeds are probably around > waiting for anyone to expose some bare soil.
> Cover the lot in plastic and leave it for a year??? (Are we allowed to do > that??).
> Potentially a lot of work here, important that any effort is most > efficiently targeted.
> So please advise and suggest plans of action!
> Many thanks
You will find you cannot dig out couch grass no matter how careful you are and it will be a problem for ever. Spray with glyphosate (Roundup) while the plants are still green and wait a few weeks and they will all turn brown and the roots will be killed too. It's the only sure way to kill almost all perennial weeds and start with a clean plot. Black plastic will work eventually but by then you will have had notice to quit for not cultivating your plot. Glysophate weedkiller becomes inert on contact with the soil so it's not too bad. Mares tail is another problem, you certainly cannot dig that out it goes down too far and the foliage is naturally water resistant so it's difficult to kill with weedkiller, we found constant hoeing off reduced it over time. Spend the first 10 mins of every visit to the plot hoeing. It will be all around and will come back from the surrounding areas but from our experience it seems to move across an area in a wave of thick growth and just leaves a few plants behind in it's wake. One problem is, if the surrounding area is also infested with couch it will grow back surprising quickly so it may be an idea to weedkiller the whole area and reseed any grass paths with proper grass. Or use old paving slabs like us to cut down on the work. Don't put your compost bin onto soil infested with couch or it will infest your compost making it useless.
Bob Hobden wrote: > "Lol" wrote ... >> Well actually it looks more like a bit of field that hasn't been >> cultivated for years. >> 4 poles (100 m2), all covered in couch grass. >> So far we have dismantled a couple of pallets and made a compost >> bin, but probably can't compost couch grass enough to kill it. >> Mares tail is also present in the area, so seeds are probably around >> waiting for anyone to expose some bare soil.
>> Cover the lot in plastic and leave it for a year??? (Are we allowed >> to do that??).
>> Potentially a lot of work here, important that any effort is most >> efficiently targeted.
>> So please advise and suggest plans of action!
>> Many thanks
> You will find you cannot dig out couch grass no matter how careful > you are and it will be a problem for ever. Spray with glyphosate > (Roundup) while the plants are still green and wait a few weeks and > they will all turn brown and the roots will be killed too. It's the > only sure way to kill almost all perennial weeds and start with a > clean plot. Black plastic will work eventually but by then you will > have had notice to quit for not cultivating your plot. Glysophate > weedkiller becomes inert on contact with the soil so it's not too bad. > Mares tail is another problem, you certainly cannot dig that out it > goes down too far and the foliage is naturally water resistant so > it's difficult to kill with weedkiller, we found constant hoeing off > reduced it over time. Spend the first 10 mins of every visit to the > plot hoeing. It will be all around and will come back from the > surrounding areas but from our experience it seems to move across an > area in a wave of thick growth and just leaves a few plants behind in > it's wake. One problem is, if the surrounding area is also infested with > couch > it will grow back surprising quickly so it may be an idea to > weedkiller the whole area and reseed any grass paths with proper > grass. Or use old paving slabs like us to cut down on the work. > Don't put your compost bin onto soil infested with couch or it will > infest your compost making it useless.
Bob's comments are spot on. I also find a flame gun useful on Mares tail. It destroys what you can see and weakens the roots. Come spring when it starts to grow, visit the plot as often as possible and deal with the tail. Go away for 2 weeks, and you won't beleive the 2ft high 'field' waving at you in the breeze!! Good luck :) -- Buy a poppy....help a serviceman Also.... http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html Pete C London UK
> Bob Hobden wrote: >> "Lol" wrote ... >>> Well actually it looks more like a bit of field that hasn't been >>> cultivated for years. >>> 4 poles (100 m2), all covered in couch grass. >>> So far we have dismantled a couple of pallets and made a compost >>> bin, but probably can't compost couch grass enough to kill it. >>> Mares tail is also present in the area, so seeds are probably around >>> waiting for anyone to expose some bare soil.
>>> Cover the lot in plastic and leave it for a year??? (Are we allowed >>> to do that??).
>>> Potentially a lot of work here, important that any effort is most >>> efficiently targeted.
>>> So please advise and suggest plans of action!
>>> Many thanks
>> You will find you cannot dig out couch grass no matter how careful >> you are and it will be a problem for ever. Spray with glyphosate >> (Roundup) while the plants are still green and wait a few weeks and >> they will all turn brown and the roots will be killed too. It's the >> only sure way to kill almost all perennial weeds and start with a >> clean plot. Black plastic will work eventually but by then you will >> have had notice to quit for not cultivating your plot. Glysophate >> weedkiller becomes inert on contact with the soil so it's not too bad. >> Mares tail is another problem, you certainly cannot dig that out it >> goes down too far and the foliage is naturally water resistant so >> it's difficult to kill with weedkiller, we found constant hoeing off >> reduced it over time. Spend the first 10 mins of every visit to the >> plot hoeing. It will be all around and will come back from the >> surrounding areas but from our experience it seems to move across an >> area in a wave of thick growth and just leaves a few plants behind in >> it's wake. One problem is, if the surrounding area is also infested with >> couch >> it will grow back surprising quickly so it may be an idea to >> weedkiller the whole area and reseed any grass paths with proper >> grass. Or use old paving slabs like us to cut down on the work. >> Don't put your compost bin onto soil infested with couch or it will >> infest your compost making it useless.
> Bob's comments are spot on. I also find a flame gun useful on Mares tail. > It destroys what you can see and weakens the roots. Come spring when it > starts to grow, visit the plot as often as possible and deal with the > tail. Go away for 2 weeks, and you won't beleive the 2ft high 'field' > waving at you in the breeze!! Good luck :)
What they said. I would also manually clear a strip or two now and get some overwintering onions and broad beans in.This will give you encouragement to stick at the task, there's nothing worse than a vast expanse of nothing.
Derek Turner wrote: > In a word, glyphosate. And now in in industrial strength. BTW mares-tail > is a semi-aquatic, you are more likely to have horse-tail q.v.. Bob > Flowerdew recommends moving house if you have it.
Hi there. We've lived and worked in Belgium for the last 7 years. Our own house is in Yorkshire. Our present rental property has a smallish lawn and an 'l' shaped herbaceous to the back of the lawn and down the side of the house. Everything seemed tidy for the first month. But then I spotted the dreaded horsetail!! It 'lived' in the border alongside the house. I then realised that owner's wife had regularly "cropped" and also just before we moved in. I hoed the tops off for the 1st year. Then I'd had enough so I asked if the plants from the 1st 15 yards could be removed, along with the soil. Three men duly arrived and it was done in a couple of hours.
When the horsetail regrew I sprayed with a double strength SBK liquid,50 ml/1.5 l. and after 4 weeks repeated the process. I took a risk and transplanted a few small low-growing shrubs. After another 6 weeks I only found 2 sprigs of horsetail regrown from an original fifty.
The bottom section, which borders the lawn has large shrubs, so I used a piece of carboard carton as a shield and sprayed the horsetail in between these plants.
I'm now keeping fingers crossed for a clean border, in time for a bit of fresh spring planting! Wish me well :-)
> "Lol" wrote ... >> Well actually it looks more like a bit of field that hasn't been >> cultivated for years. >> 4 poles (100 m2), all covered in couch grass. >> So far we have dismantled a couple of pallets and made a compost bin, but >> probably can't compost couch grass enough to kill it. >> Mares tail is also present in the area, so seeds are probably around >> waiting for anyone to expose some bare soil.
>> Cover the lot in plastic and leave it for a year??? (Are we allowed to do >> that??).
>> Potentially a lot of work here, important that any effort is most >> efficiently targeted.
>> So please advise and suggest plans of action!
>> Many thanks
> You will find you cannot dig out couch grass no matter how careful you are > and it will be a problem for ever. Spray with glyphosate (Roundup) while > the plants are still green and wait a few weeks and they will all turn > brown and the roots will be killed too. It's the only sure way to kill > almost all perennial weeds and start with a clean plot. Black plastic > will work eventually but by then you will have had notice to quit for not > cultivating your plot. Glysophate weedkiller becomes inert on contact with > the soil so it's not too bad. > Mares tail is another problem, you certainly cannot dig that out it goes > down too far and the foliage is naturally water resistant so it's > difficult to kill with weedkiller, we found constant hoeing off reduced it > over time. Spend the first 10 mins of every visit to the plot hoeing. It > will be all around and will come back from the surrounding areas but from > our experience it seems to move across an area in a wave of thick growth > and just leaves a few plants behind in it's wake. > One problem is, if the surrounding area is also infested with couch it > will grow back surprising quickly so it may be an idea to weedkiller the > whole area and reseed any grass paths with proper grass. Or use old paving > slabs like us to cut down on the work. > Don't put your compost bin onto soil infested with couch or it will infest > your compost making it useless.
> -- > Regards > Bob Hobden > just W. of London
Many thanks for that detailed and informative answer.
Will certainly investigate Glysophate, but without much enthusiasm. Had a chance to look closely today, and not all of that grass is couch, I think its mainly rye with clumps of couch.
there's a willow tree at one end, and a plum tree in one corner, couch grass infestation seem to have come from there.
We will only know for sure when we start work in earnest. Have sited compost carefully in a clear area.
> In a word, glyphosate. And now in in industrial strength. BTW mares-tail > is a semi-aquatic, you are more likely to have horse-tail q.v.. Bob > Flowerdew recommends moving house if you have it.
Thanks for that.
As it turns out, what we have here is probably "Bottle brush"
> Will certainly investigate Glysophate, but without much enthusiasm. Had a > chance to look closely today, and not all of that grass is couch, I think > its mainly rye with clumps of couch.
We too didn't like the idea of using weedkiller when we got an overgrown plot years ago that hadn't been used for 20 years or more. But experience told us it was the only way we could deal with the perennial weeds. Two sprays a month apart and it was done. Being surrounded by similar wild land it was a constant battle with couch and mares tail trying to get to the nice fertile soil we developed.
> As it turns out, what we have here is probably "Bottle brush"
> So thats Ok then - no need to abandon hope...
Bottlebrush?? Probably is a local name for Mares tail or more correctly Horsetail (Equisetum sp.). Mares tail is correctly used for an aquatic plant ( Hippuris vulgaris) that looks similar (but we all know what you mean).
> (Huge snip) >> Will certainly investigate Glysophate, but without much enthusiasm. Had a >> chance to look closely today, and not all of that grass is couch, I think >> its mainly rye with clumps of couch.
> We too didn't like the idea of using weedkiller when we got an overgrown > plot years ago that hadn't been used for 20 years or more. But experience > told us it was the only way we could deal with the perennial weeds. Two > sprays a month apart and it was done. > Being surrounded by similar wild land it was a constant battle with couch > and mares tail trying to get to the nice fertile soil we developed.
I took over an allotment 2 years ago with brambles, couch grass and bindweed and dug out what I could. I think that I have got rid of brambles but still find the other two. OTOH they don't prevent decent crops so am not too worried.
-- CTC Right to Ride Rep. for Richmond upon Thames
>> As it turns out, what we have here is probably "Bottle brush"
>> So thats Ok then - no need to abandon hope...
> Bottlebrush?? > Probably is a local name for Mares tail or more correctly Horsetail > (Equisetum sp.). > Mares tail is correctly used for an aquatic plant ( Hippuris vulgaris) > that looks similar (but we all know what you mean).
> -- > Regards > Bob Hobden > just W. of London
I mean that Shakespeare's plays were actually written by someone else of the same name. lol
>> Bob Hobden wrote: >>> "Lol" wrote ... >>>> Well actually it looks more like a bit of field that hasn't been >>>> cultivated for years. >>>> 4 poles (100 m2), all covered in couch grass. >>>> So far we have dismantled a couple of pallets and made a compost >>>> bin, but probably can't compost couch grass enough to kill it. >>>> Mares tail is also present in the area, so seeds are probably around >>>> waiting for anyone to expose some bare soil.
>>>> Cover the lot in plastic and leave it for a year??? (Are we allowed >>>> to do that??).
>>>> Potentially a lot of work here, important that any effort is most >>>> efficiently targeted.
>>>> So please advise and suggest plans of action!
>>>> Many thanks
>>> You will find you cannot dig out couch grass no matter how careful >>> you are and it will be a problem for ever. Spray with glyphosate >>> (Roundup) while the plants are still green and wait a few weeks and >>> they will all turn brown and the roots will be killed too. It's the >>> only sure way to kill almost all perennial weeds and start with a >>> clean plot. Black plastic will work eventually but by then you will >>> have had notice to quit for not cultivating your plot. Glysophate >>> weedkiller becomes inert on contact with the soil so it's not too bad. >>> Mares tail is another problem, you certainly cannot dig that out it >>> goes down too far and the foliage is naturally water resistant so >>> it's difficult to kill with weedkiller, we found constant hoeing off >>> reduced it over time. Spend the first 10 mins of every visit to the >>> plot hoeing. It will be all around and will come back from the >>> surrounding areas but from our experience it seems to move across an >>> area in a wave of thick growth and just leaves a few plants behind in >>> it's wake. One problem is, if the surrounding area is also infested with >>> couch >>> it will grow back surprising quickly so it may be an idea to >>> weedkiller the whole area and reseed any grass paths with proper >>> grass. Or use old paving slabs like us to cut down on the work. >>> Don't put your compost bin onto soil infested with couch or it will >>> infest your compost making it useless.
>> Bob's comments are spot on. I also find a flame gun useful on Mares tail. >> It destroys what you can see and weakens the roots. Come spring when it >> starts to grow, visit the plot as often as possible and deal with the >> tail. Go away for 2 weeks, and you won't beleive the 2ft high 'field' >> waving at you in the breeze!! Good luck :)
> What they said. I would also manually clear a strip or two now and get > some overwintering onions and broad beans in.This will give you > encouragement to stick at the task, there's nothing worse than a vast > expanse of nothing.
> Steve
Thats an excellent suggestion, thanks. Forgot that wallflowers only went into the garden last month - is there any other veg that could go in now? Lol
>>> Will certainly investigate Glysophate, but without much enthusiasm.
>> So, don't.
>> There was gardening before glyphosate.
> There was gardening before the spade and fork, how far back do you want to > go.
> -- > Regards > Bob Hobden > just W. of London
Allotment is about productivity rather than tree hugging I do agree, but we are the sort of nuts who enjoy leaving some long grass in our small front garden, so as to get the delightful sound of grasshoppers in the summer. This annoys those who like things tidy, and think front gardens are for paving and parking cars on. Finding the balance, thats the trick.
Some of the anti weedkiller studies are a bit mad - just read one that claimed a supposedly harmless weedkiller actually killed wildlife, because it destroyed the environment the wildlife lived in. Therefore 'harmful', not harmless as claimed.
Yup - no long grass = no grasshoppers, whose fault is that?
I'm sure we'll be able to enjoy happy chirping sounds from other peoples weedy plots...
> Some of the anti weedkiller studies are a bit mad - just read one that > claimed a supposedly harmless weedkiller actually killed wildlife, because > it destroyed the environment the wildlife lived in. > Therefore 'harmful', not harmless as claimed.
So a hoe is as harmful to the environment as weedkiller. We had better all stop using them then.
>>>> Will certainly investigate Glysophate, but without much enthusiasm.
>>> So, don't.
>>> There was gardening before glyphosate.
>> There was gardening before the spade and fork, how far back do you want >> to >> go.
> Just before pollution of rivers by glyphosate.
Then it hasn't been used properly or the wrong formulation has been used (there are even formulations for use in the aquatic environment), from what I've read it's not the fault of the chemical. However I'd like to know any scientifically proven cases of that happening as my understanding is this chemical has a low toxicity level and quite quickly becomes inert on contact with soil and even quicker in a natural watercourse. I will agree some of the surfactants combined with glyphosate in old products (Roundup) did cause concerns but the new retail Roundup Biactive formulae contains better, more expensive, surfactants that are much less toxic.
Le Mon, 9 Nov 2009 16:40:57 -0000, Bob Hobden a écrit :
> I will agree some of the surfactants combined with glyphosate in old > products (Roundup) did cause concerns but the new retail Roundup Biactive > formulae contains better, more expensive, surfactants that are much less > toxic.
> Le Mon, 9 Nov 2009 16:40:57 -0000, Bob Hobden a écrit :
>> I will agree some of the surfactants combined with glyphosate in old >> products (Roundup) did cause concerns but the new retail Roundup Biactive >> formulae contains better, more expensive, surfactants that are much less >> toxic.
> On 2009-11-09 17:58:55 +0000, Neuneu > <lemailcestbienmaisjepref...@laporcelaine.com> said:
>> Le Mon, 9 Nov 2009 16:40:57 -0000, Bob Hobden a écrit :
>>> I will agree some of the surfactants combined with glyphosate in old >>> products (Roundup) did cause concerns but the new retail Roundup Biactive >>> formulae contains better, more expensive, surfactants that are much less >>> toxic.
>> Is advertising allowed in urg now ?
> If you look at the FAQ it tells you what the group requirements are as > to advertising but group members have always discussed, among > themselves, what they consider to be good products of all types. > Recently we had a thread on seed germination and those selling the best > etc. People recommend various gardening tools and so forth. That's not > advertising, it's people chatting about gardening and their personal > experiences.
Except there is only one product recommended and always the same.
This group should be renamed u.r.monsanto.gardening.
>Except there is only one product recommended and always the same.
Glyphosate is the generic name of the active ingredient. It is available from other manufacturers apart from Monsanto, and that is why most of the recommendations on urg are to the active ingredient glyphosate and not to any particular product. -- Kay
> Le Mon, 9 Nov 2009 18:11:55 +0000, Sacha a écrit :
>> On 2009-11-09 17:58:55 +0000, Neuneu >> <lemailcestbienmaisjepref...@laporcelaine.com> said:
>>> Le Mon, 9 Nov 2009 16:40:57 -0000, Bob Hobden a écrit :
>>>> I will agree some of the surfactants combined with glyphosate in old >>>> products (Roundup) did cause concerns but the new retail Roundup >>>> Biactive >>>> formulae contains better, more expensive, surfactants that are much >>>> less >>>> toxic.
>>> Is advertising allowed in urg now ?
>> If you look at the FAQ it tells you what the group requirements are as >> to advertising but group members have always discussed, among >> themselves, what they consider to be good products of all types. >> Recently we had a thread on seed germination and those selling the best >> etc. People recommend various gardening tools and so forth. That's not >> advertising, it's people chatting about gardening and their personal >> experiences.
> Except there is only one product recommended and always the same.
> This group should be renamed u.r.monsanto.gardening.
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