I know a lot has been written on the net about dynamo hubs, but is there any experience of them in this group?
My daily commute of 24 miles each way sees me ride (at this time of year), about 40 minutes on completely un-lit, narrow country lanes. So far (past 2 years) I have managed with a Cateye EL300, twisted slightly to the left to pick out the white line of the road edge. However, the EL300 is not bright enough to warn me of any pot holes or debris in the road at my average speed of 29kph. I also find it needs re-charging after every 2 commutes to retain full power, what a pain. I NEED more light.
I was originally going to buy a Nimh re-chargeable set, but I thought I would investigate dynamos first, even though I was dubious about their performance.
I don't mind going down the hub route rather than a bottle dynamo which I understand is less efficient.
My first question is, at 18-20mph, would the output from a front light only (will use battery on the rear) be significantly better than my EL300?
Would I be better off paying the extra for a Schmidt hub rather than a Shimano? What's the difference, weight, quality, drag, output?
Guess I will wait to see if anyone has any comments on the above, but I would also like to know the best light to run off the dynamo, presuming a B&M fitted with a 3 watt bulb would be best?
I work in Germany frequently, I'm presuming this gear must be cheaper over there? Off to investigate the .de sites now!
Thanks in advance.
-- Mark _______________________________________ Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter
Alternatively of course, would I be better off with a decent re-chargeable kit? It does concern me that the Nimh packs can only be charged a certain number of times, but I'm guessing it must be between 300 and 500 which equates to a good few years use.
Decisions, decisions!
-- Mark _______________________________________ Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter
"Mark (MSA)" wrote... > My first question is, at 18-20mph, would the output from a front light > only (will use battery on the rear) be significantly better than my EL300?
> Would I be better off paying the extra for a Schmidt hub rather than a > Shimano? What's the difference, weight, quality, drag, output?
> Guess I will wait to see if anyone has any comments on the above, but I > would also like to know the best light to run off the dynamo, presuming a > B&M fitted with a 3 watt bulb would be best?
> I work in Germany frequently, I'm presuming this gear must be cheaper over > there? Off to investigate the .de sites now!
> Thanks in advance.
I traded my EL300 for a Shimano DH-3N70 (Ultegra quality dynamo hub) and Busch & Muller Lumotec halogen light. Yes, the output is significantly better at the speeds you describe (and at lower speeds as well). My Cateye was adequate for my nighttime cmmutes, the dynohub setup has increased my enjoyment and safety tremendously.
If I were travelling at the speeds you travel at and covering the mileage you cover, I would certainly give serious thought to upgrading from my present setup. A Schmidt hub, Lumotec primary and E6 secondary could make your nighttime travel a lot more enjoyable. -- mark
> "Mark (MSA)" wrote... >> My first question is, at 18-20mph, would the output from a front light only >> (will use battery on the rear) be significantly better than my EL300?
>> Would I be better off paying the extra for a Schmidt hub rather than a >> Shimano? What's the difference, weight, quality, drag, output?
>> Guess I will wait to see if anyone has any comments on the above, but I >> would also like to know the best light to run off the dynamo, presuming a >> B&M fitted with a 3 watt bulb would be best?
>> I work in Germany frequently, I'm presuming this gear must be cheaper over >> there? Off to investigate the .de sites now!
>> Thanks in advance.
> If I were travelling at the speeds you travel at and covering the mileage you > cover, I would certainly give serious thought to upgrading from my present > setup. A Schmidt hub, Lumotec primary and E6 secondary could make your > nighttime travel a lot more enjoyable.
I wonder how that set-up would compare to say the Electron 5w + 10w system (or the 5w system with the bulb changed for a 10)? http://tinyurl.com/cclq7
-- Mark _______________________________________ Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter
I submit that on or about Sat, 01 Oct 2005 20:27:08 +0100, the person known to the court as "Mark \(MSA\)" <onyerbikem...@yahoo.co.uk> made a statement (<mn.0ccb7d5a7e312097.39...@yahoo.co.uk> in Your Honour's bundle) to the following effect:
>I know a lot has been written on the net about dynamo hubs, but is >there any experience of them in this group?
2 x SON, 1 x Nexus, another Nexus on order...
>My daily commute of 24 miles each way sees me ride (at this time of >year), about 40 minutes on completely un-lit, narrow country lanes. So >far (past 2 years) I have managed with a Cateye EL300, twisted slightly >to the left to pick out the white line of the road edge. However, the >EL300 is not bright enough to warn me of any pot holes or debris in the >road at my average speed of 29kph. I also find it needs re-charging >after every 2 commutes to retain full power, what a pain. I NEED more >light.
A SON with a B&M Lumotec as primary and a SON E6 headlight as secondary is my recommendation.
>I was originally going to buy a Nimh re-chargeable set, but I thought I >would investigate dynamos first, even though I was dubious about their >performance.
I have ridden thousands of miles on unlit roads with a single 3W powered off a Nexus, and more with a SON powering a double setup as above (you connect them in series with a shorting switch across the secondary, and you don't use the auto-switching Lumotec, just the standard switched version).
>My first question is, at 18-20mph, would the output from a front light >only (will use battery on the rear) be significantly better than my >EL300?
Yes. The lamps have better optics.
>Would I be better off paying the extra for a Schmidt hub rather than a >Shimano? What's the difference, weight, quality, drag, output?
Yes. The new Nexus is alleged to be nearly as good, but the SON is worth every penny. The drag is barely noticeable - I rode 15 miles with the light on in daylight by accident once, I didn't notice the extra drag. And the SON does the 12V thing, which is good (again, I believe the new Nexus does it, but /my/ SONs are better than my Nexus)
>I work in Germany frequently, I'm presuming this gear must be cheaper >over there? Off to investigate the .de sites now!
= wonder how that set-up would compare to say the Electron 5w + 10w =system (or the 5w system with the bulb changed for a 10)?
This is nit pcking. The hub dynamo is fit and forget always works gives enough light and un-noticable drag.A 3w front is enough for me in dark lanes and not having to worry about it running down is a great improvement. It will be fine for your commute and a great improvement on batteries. If you like lots of light at times wear a head torch or use a battery light as well,but if there is little light you don't need much, and if blinded by car lights you cannot really compete anyway. I have had a B&M oval halogen lamp with a shimano hub dynamo for a couple of years.LED rear. Old dynamos caused noticable drag.Expensive modern bottles do not.I was glad to see the back of bottles. TerryJ
mark wrote: > If I were travelling at the speeds you travel at and covering the mileage > you cover, I would certainly give serious thought to upgrading from my > present setup. A Schmidt hub, Lumotec primary and E6 secondary could make > your nighttime travel a lot more enjoyable.
If I were doing it, I'd fit an LED front (Unless you dislike the quality of light). I can provide circuit diagrams (Thanks again Chris!) which would cover most of the work of connecting the Luxeon LEDs to a dynohub. The 3W LED is (IIRC) the limit of what can be achieved with the normal dynohubs, but will provide more than enough light output to work with. I currently run one with a 7.2v battery pack (Built for a different lamp) at half current and it is easily bright enough for cautious travel of unlit cycle tracks (Tested earlier in the week). Running it at full whack should be bright enough for most road use.
> I wonder how that set-up would compare to say the Electron 5w + 10w system > (or the 5w system with the bulb changed for a 10)?
Depends on how good the optics of the Electron system are. My questions about any battery system are 1) how do low temperatures affect battery run time and 2) what happens to battery output as the charge is depleted. The beauty of dynamos is that you never have to worry about charging batteries, batteries dying prematurely in the cold, forgetting to charge batteries or any of that stuff. -- mark
in message <mn.0ccb7d5a7e312097.39...@yahoo.co.uk>, Mark (MSA)
('onyerbikem...@yahoo.co.uk') wrote: > I know a lot has been written on the net about dynamo hubs, but is > there any experience of them in this group?
> My daily commute of 24 miles each way sees me ride (at this time of > year), about 40 minutes on completely un-lit, narrow country lanes. So > far (past 2 years) I have managed with a Cateye EL300, twisted slightly > to the left to pick out the white line of the road edge. However, the > EL300 is not bright enough to warn me of any pot holes or debris in the > road at my average speed of 29kph. I also find it needs re-charging > after every 2 commutes to retain full power, what a pain. I NEED more > light.
Twenty-odd years ago, for six years, I used to commute twelve miles each way summer and winter on unlit roads, and would often also go into town to visit friends in the evenings, a further four miles each way. I used a dynamo and judged it adequate for riding briskly and far better than the battery lights available at the time, _but_ those lights were nothing like as good as modern battery lights. I now have one bike in the house with a Shimano Nexus hub dynamo, and am thinking of fitting one to my own winter training bike. Dynamo lights have also improved over the years, but (apart from the new, expensive Solidlights one) not nearly as much as battery lights have. The one we have now I judge to be bright enough for night riding on unlit roads, but my partner, whose bike it is, prefers a battery rig.
> I don't mind going down the hub route rather than a bottle dynamo which > I understand is less efficient.
If you're getting a dynamo definitely get a hub dynamo. Ones that run on the tyre are noisy, high drag, prone to slip, untidy, wear out tyres and are generally a nuisance.
I rode for over 100 km in Scotland in the dark on LEL with a SON powered B&M Lumotec and D-toplight. IMHO the front light was better than my riding partners EL500. I never notice the extra drag
In article <mn.0ccb7d5a7e312097.39...@yahoo.co.uk>, Mark \(MSA\) wrote:
>I don't mind going down the hub route rather than a bottle dynamo which >I understand is less efficient.
>My first question is, at 18-20mph, would the output from a front light >only (will use battery on the rear) be significantly better than my >EL300?
Even a cheapish bottle dynamo with a Lumotec light gives a better light than an EL300 in my experience. (I'm considering upgrading to a hub dynamo.)
>Guess I will wait to see if anyone has any comments on the above, but I >would also like to know the best light to run off the dynamo, presuming >a B&M fitted with a 3 watt bulb would be best?
Best value, maybe. The more expensive SON E6 seems to be generally regarded as a better light in absolute terms. There's also the Luxeon LED based 1203D. (I haven't tried that, but have borrowed a 1303, and based on that would expect the 1203D to be better than many lights. http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php) (B&M do an LED lamp too, the D'Lumotec Topal - apparently it's better than their bulb lamps at lower speeds, but not at higher speeds (though unlikely to ever burn out, which bulbs will eventually).)
"Mark (MSA)" <onyerbikem...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Would I be better off paying the extra for a Schmidt hub rather > than a Shimano? What's the difference, weight, quality, drag, > output? > Guess I will wait to see if anyone has any comments on the above, > but I would also like to know the best light to run off the dynamo, > presuming a B&M fitted with a 3 watt bulb would be best? > I work in Germany frequently, I'm presuming this gear must be > cheaper over there? Off to investigate the .de sites now!
I've run a Shimano NX30 for about the last 5 years. The last time I opened the bearings, they weren't in good shape, and I've relegated it to a spare bike now. Considering the price, I have no complaints about its longevity, but I replaced it with a Schmidt. If I were buying a dynohub now for more than occasional use, I'd consider one of the fancier Shimano models which claim to have better seals and bearings.
Any of the Shimano hubs that produce a nominal 6V 3W will drive two headlamps in series. I'm happy enough with a pair of Lumotecs (both round, one with a standlicht) that I haven't felt the need to invest in anything more exotic.
Shimano has a new model out called the DH-3N30. Details on the Shimano Europe website.
http://www.roseversand.de is the cheapest source of hub dynamos that I've come across. They have all the Shimano models, and a number of lamps and accessories.
Mark (MSA) wrote: > I know a lot has been written on the net about dynamo hubs, but is there > any experience of them in this group?
> My daily commute of 24 miles each way sees me ride (at this time of > year), about 40 minutes on completely un-lit, narrow country lanes. So > far (past 2 years) I have managed with a Cateye EL300, twisted slightly > to the left to pick out the white line of the road edge. However, the > EL300 is not bright enough to warn me of any pot holes or debris in the > road at my average speed of 29kph. I also find it needs re-charging > after every 2 commutes to retain full power, what a pain. I NEED more > light.
> I was originally going to buy a Nimh re-chargeable set, but I thought I > would investigate dynamos first, even though I was dubious about their > performance.
I upgraded from a re-chargeable setup to a SON with a Lumatech Oval Plus lame and a 3W bulb and it was fine on unlit roads. When my commute changed to be 21 miles each way on more major unlit roads with more traffic it could not match the light from on coming cars. So I added an E-6 secondary lamp and frankly it is fantastic. Commuting the sort of distance you are I would highly recommend that set up.
> My first question is, at 18-20mph, would the output from a front light > only (will use battery on the rear) be significantly better than my > EL300?
Yes.
But...
At those speeds, you'd need two lights wired up to the dynamo to get decent light output IMO. For that you need a Schmidt really.
By the time you've spent all that money, I'd just buy a Lumicycle 12W NiMH + smart charger set and keep the EL300 on the bike for those times when the rechargables die.
Arthur
-- Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt The struggle of people against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera
>> A SON with a B&M Lumotec as primary and a SON E6 headlight as >> secondary is my recommendation.
Can you expand on that please? I've just ordered SON generator + E6S + E6Z - but it's not too late to change the order (he's ordered the hub first to build the wheel onto).
And before anyone says "more money than sense", my car is so inefficient that I will only have to commute 2400 km to have paid for it in "saved petrol".
"Arthur Clune" <art...@kremer.york.ac.uk> wrote: > At those speeds, you'd need two lights wired up to the dynamo > to get decent light output IMO. For that you need a Schmidt really.
You really don't. A 30 euro Shimano NX30 will happily drive two headlamps. That's not to say that Mark wouldn't get his money's worth from the Schmidt.
>http://www.roseversand.de is the cheapest source of hub dynamos that I've >come across. They have all the Shimano models, and a number of lamps and >accessories.
> And before anyone says "more money than sense", my car is so > inefficient that I will only have to commute 2400 km to have paid for > it in "saved petrol".
More money than sense would be those supernova lights I saw in the wiggle advert in the last issue of cycle. I saw those prices and thought 'eek'.
Nice setup. Nearly the same as mine, I'll have to get the E6, sounds perfect for the long dark downhill stretches. I've just changed from the Oval (broken when car knocked parked bike over) to the Topal, which excellant in many ways, but could do with some help away from the town. -rory
sothach wrote: > Nice setup. Nearly the same as mine, I'll have to get the E6, sounds > perfect for the long dark downhill stretches.
It is. One hill hill I descend on the way home I can top 40mph which in the dark was more than a little too exciting without the E6Z. Now it is just fine.
I just love riding in the dark now. I can see and am confident my batteries won't run out.
> You really don't. A 30 euro Shimano NX30 will happily drive two headlamps.
I stand corrected.
-- Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt The struggle of people against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera
Wow, you guys really are something else! Great info, and some great links.
I started off thinking rechargeables would provide better light,and be the easier option, then I changed my mind to a B&M S6 bottle.
Now I've read the last few posts, I really think I want a hub (they provide more 'power right?).
So, back to the hub dynamo. I 'think' for now I will buy a Shimano, run it for a while and see how I get on. Is the drag and the 'output of the Shimano similar to the SON 28, or would I be losing out?
Keeping the price lower if possible (if it's false economy then please tell me) which Shimano hub should I go for?
Guys comment "A B&M Lumotec as primary and a SON E6 headlight as secondary is my recommendation" makes a lot of sense, any 'objections' to this set up? :D
Thanks to Chris too for the Blog links, I think I will blame you for making my mind up :-)
Don't usually ask so many questions, I can usually Google and find what I want. Really don't know where I am with dynamos though, really glad you guys are there to help...thanks a million.
So,
Shimano OK for now instead of SON, or bad move, false economy? Lumotec primary and E6 secondary...cool?
You realise I will be back asking how to wire this little lot up!
Thanks in advance.
-- Mark _______________________________________ Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter
> Shimano OK for now instead of SON, or bad move, false economy?
I've got an NX-10, which is afaik the first shimano dynohub, and was notoriously inefficient. I hardly noticed it in real life, and the newer ones are supposed to be a lot better.
I've also got a SON (actually three on various bikes), and yes, they are shinier, but not really worth the extra.
(In which case why did I buy the other two? a) they're shinier, b) they're european, c) they've got nicer bearings, d) they come in 28H (brompton), e) I can afford it).
> So, back to the hub dynamo. I 'think' for now I will buy a Shimano, run > it for a while and see how I get on. Is the drag and the 'output of the > Shimano similar to the SON 28, or would I be losing out?
You will be loosing out on owning a really great bit of art. The SON just looks a feels great.
> Keeping the price lower if possible (if it's false economy then please > tell me) which Shimano hub should I go for?
> Guys comment "A B&M Lumotec as primary and a SON E6 headlight as > secondary is my recommendation" makes a lot of sense, any 'objections' > to this set up? :D
> Thanks to Chris too for the Blog links, I think I will blame you for > making my mind up :-)
I accept the blame, since I blame Guy for my SOM and my me'n'u2. I will happily blame him with a few pints if we ever meet.
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