Hi group,

I am looking to buy a new commuter bike and am thinking of going for hub
gears instead of derailleur, because of the low maintenance and the way they
are protected against crud.

I will buy the bike through the Cycleto Work scheme which has a limit of
£1000, so Rholoff is out of the question - it will have to be Shimano
Alfine.

I am told that one problem with these hub gears is that they are too narrow
in range, so that one both spins out at the fast end, and runs out of gears
on the hills.

Does anyone have any views/experience of this?

Also, does anyone have a table on ratios of hub gears v. derailleurs?

Thanks,

Byron Jenkins

Sheldon Brown's site has an online gear calculator:

http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/

You can input different cassettes/chainrings and compare the output to the
hub gears to compare things like range and step.

news:TradnbR5KIG-_G7XnZ2dnUVZ8kWdnZ2d@bt.com...

What's your route like?

Not the case.  My current buildup I didn't do any gearing calculations
and 6th gear is good for 20mph and 1st low enough for anything I'm
going to tackle.  I'll move the ratio northwards a bit more this
weekend.  Can't recommend it enough though, lovely smooth shift.

Shimano do,

http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/nl/index/...

My wife has a Spesh Globe Elite with the Shimano 8 speed for a commuter
hack.  She's not complained about the range, and when I've borrowed it
neither have I.  I'd want more for touring or sports (we both have
touring bikes with wider ranges), but for commuting and general use (and
Dundee ain't flat) it's a great tool.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch                    Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637   Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177              Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.cli...@dundee.ac.uk     http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

news:TradnbR5KIG-_G7XnZ2dnUVZ8kWdnZ2d@bt.com...

Although you have ruled out the "rohloff" due to cost. I must say that in
terms of providing me with a really pleasant ride which copes with all my
needs -- daily pratting around, training runs, shopping runs + trailer and
my annual tour in Europe  -- I have never regretted buying the Thorne Raven
Tour Exactly 3 years ago today.

It has completed a short 12000 miles and the hub gear makes it, IMO,  an
ideal all rounder bike. On tour the  hub gear is virtually maintenance free
in comparison with the derailleur set up, which needs daily cleaning and
attention.

The only problem that I have experienced  is chain stretch/wear. I actually
expected that since the chain is in a fixed ration in the chain drive setup,
that there would be noticeable reduction in chain wear but that has not been
the case

When touring with derailleur I generally fitted a new chain and new cassette
every year before setting off.

I really expected that to be a thing of the past but I have just fitted my
third new chain after completing my 2009 tour.

It had actually done two tours ( well 1 1/2 really  -- including my failed
2008 tour) and by the time I got back from Berlin I cold certainly tell! The
journey back from Hull King George dock to home -- some 90 kms was very much
"clunk click" every "push" on the pedals

The problem may be due to touring under load  -- and I am not your typical
slim fit cyclist!    The drive chain has to work hard  -- but I had hoped
for better than the twists and strains put on the chain with a derailleur

I suspect that you have a point with your

"I am told that one problem with these hub gears is that they are too narrow
in range, so that one both spins out at the fast end, and runs out of gears
on the hills."

I have 14 gears to play with but actually have it "geared down" for touring
under trailer and camping load. So at the bottom end I have generally no
problems with hills -- but certainly for the normal day to day stuff I am
distinctly limited at the top end. I can get up to about 40 kph ( 25 mph)
maximum  by which time I am spinning very "out".  Actually with me that is
not a huge problem and my normal top speed is a comfortable 20 mph/32 kph
these days. I am a pootler rather than a "got to get there'er"

But I would think that for a commuting bike a hub gear system is ideal. I
give my velo a wash down about once a month and clean the chain at the same
time and that is about it

A little ramble!!!!!!!!  :-

It takes me back to my youth when my bike was a  heavy pre-war ( 2 not 1 !)
"sit up and beg" Raleigh with the 3 speed Sturmey Archer and 3 position gear
shift on the crossbar. Every winter it was stripped down and  bearings re
greased, the chain removed and cleaned, new brake pads fitted -- my memory
may be at fault --- but I don't think it ever had a new chain in its life!
Oiling points on the bottom crank case and on the hub of each wheel (
protected by a little flap)  and a whacking great bottle dynamo on the front
wheel.. I do remember that I carried a little oil can in my saddlebag which
would squirt a drop of oil with each click!
I shall never forget the first time that I cycled back home from school and
got all the way home up a series of steep hills without getting off the bike
I must have been about 11/12 at the time. My older brother ( 6 years older),
had a "racer" with an early derailleur system on it, which I was very very
occasionally allowed to try out -- I could have flown on that one!

Ah well!

From
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk( A bit messy - under review)

In message <7li79uF3e00k...@mid.individual.net>, Peter Clinch
<p.j.cli...@dundee.ac.uk> writes
Yup, I'd go with that. I have a Shimno  speed on my utility bike,
previously a Sachs 7. Used in London and then hilly Leeds. I never
really found it wanting, except on a few very steep hills.

Though when I got a kiddy trailer I put a second chainwheel on the front
for a lower range as that + shopping was a bit more of an effort.

--
Chris French

I find my 5 Sturmey-Archers fine for my local commute.  If I had some really
steep hills and a heavy load I'd probably want a lower gear though.  The 5
gears are quite widely spaced which I find fine when it's just me, but on a
group ride when I'm cycling to everyone else's speed I find I'd like a bit
finer choice of gears.

If I had £1000 to spend I'd look at the Giant Seek (can't remember what hub
that has, but it has more than 5 geears).

--
http://www.slowbicyclemovement.org/

I had a bike with a Shimano 7-speed ... a Dawes or some sort ... I
didn't find the range too narrow but I did find the gearing too low:
spinning out at 20mph and easily lifting the front wheel when starting
off in bottom gear (although that trait was aggravated by the frame
design placing the CofG further back than normal).  In the end I rebuilt
it using a cheap second-hand MTB frame and the chainset off a Raleigh
roadster (so I was using 1/8" chain - Sturmey sprockets fit the Shimano
hub).  That upped the gearing and made the whole range usable: did the
Dun Run on it a few years ago.

--
Andrew

On 05/11/2009 23:35, Alpinehorn wrote:

I think this website is rather good for details of hub gears:
http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/internal-gear-hub-review/
It has graphs of the gear ratios of most of the available hubs.

Note there's the SRAM iMotion 9, which has a wider range than the
Alfine, though its a bit more expensive.

--
Craig Wallace
http://craig.neogeo.org.uk
http://www.neogeo.org.uk

Seems a bit drastic using a whole new frame etc.  Why not just put
a bigger chainwheel and/or smaller sprocket on the original?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch                    Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637   Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177              Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.cli...@dundee.ac.uk     http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On 2009-11-05, Alpinehorn <alpineh...@btinternet.com> wrote:

Read http://www.astounding.org.uk/ian/hubgear/mangled.html first.

I'd like a go on one of those.  The Alfine shifts sublimely, but an
extra gear is always useful.

It was the other way round really, when I decided to rebuild it, I took
that opportunity to sort the gearing out.  There were other things I
didn't like about the bike too - like the aforementioned CofG being so
far back.  It was my commuting bike, so, when I retired, a complete
rebuild seemed the best way of continuing to make use of its best
bits... come to think of it, the hub gear was the only original bit to
survive ... I retained the bars, saddle, pedals and hub dynamo, but they
were all bits I'd fitted when I was commuting with it.  The final spur
towards the rebuild was when the rear rim started to crack.  I bought
the MTB (rigid steel frame, rigid forks but a good set of alloy rims) at
a Gaze's auction for about a quarter of what a new rim would have cost.
  The chainset and sprocket came from the big box of bits in the cellar.
  I can't remember where the spokes came from - perhaps I reused the
ones from the MTB wheels and just shortened them a bit.  I think a tin
of paint and a chain were the only new bits I had to buy.

--
Andrew

On 6 Nov, 11:07, "Trevor A Panther"

I know that touring is different to commuting, but I'm always a bit
nonplussed when folks talk about how hub gears require so much less
maintenance than derailleurs.  Commuting 100 miles a week all year
round I'm up and down the gears all the time and I reckon my der only
needs a quick tweak to the cable tension about once a year and is
still fine after 20K miles (OK I have replaced the jockey wheels
once).

On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 08:03:54 -0800 (PST)

Chains can be made to last a lot longer with hub gears, and bikes kept
cleaner.

Do you ever lubricate the derailler?  Clean the cluster?  Maybe you're
just lucky but my experience of deraillers is they get clagged up with
dust & grime pretty quickly.  Nothing you can do or say will persuade me
to part with my hub gear! :-)

news:4af856f0$0$2536$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...

I don't clean the cluster and only rarely lubricate the derailleur. Yes, it
gets mucky back there, but that doesn't appear to actually be a problem.

But bear in mind that Shimano have significantly changed the sealing
on current models (as discussed alongside the first two pictures on
http://www.astounding.org.uk/ian/hubgear/index.html ).

I must get round to opening up the newer one and see how it is fairing
inside there...

regards,   Ian SMith
--
  |\ /|      no .sig
  |o o|
  |/ \|

On 6 Nov, 11:07, "Trevor A Panther"

I know that touring is different to commuting, but I'm always a bit
nonplussed when folks talk about how hub gears require so much less
maintenance than derailleurs.  Commuting 100 miles a week all year
round I'm up and down the gears all the time and I reckon my der only
needs a quick tweak to the cable tension about once a year and is
still fine after 20K miles (OK I have replaced the jockey wheels
once).

When touring daily  ( on a deraileur)and covering about 80 kms a day under
full load over various surfaces  and in wildly differng conditions, it is
hardly amazing that there is a load of crud which collects on chains and
cassettes. I certainly did at least a superficial cleaning evey evening
beforeI  went off for a shower.

However, let me quote as an example one day on my tour to Berlin.

"..... then stayed on the road again to  Rühstädt where I had a lovely cold
radler and realised that I was covered in dirt and dust from the road and
cross winds. I went on and finally arrived at "Dörpkrog am Deich" and I was
welcomed with a free beer before being shown round. No charge for the night
..."

I was in fact coverd with a thick layer that almost peeled of my legs and
arms. My velo was also similarly covered with the whole frame covered in a
layer of grey brown dust. If I had been riding  derailleur geared bike the
rear cassette and jockey wheels would have been totally clogged up. In the
event I just chucked a couple of buckets of water over the bike and went on
the next day. In a 5 week tour I only cleaned the chain once and reoiled
it -- mainly because I was staying with friends in Berlin. That was the sum
total of my maintence on the whole trip. In full loaded touring lasting
several weeks with a derailler system I would clean the cassette and jockey
wheels every  day to ensure smooth riding anf pedalling!

I have just done my prewinter service and will not now do any more until
just before I set off on my 2010 tour. It will be washed down a couple of
times too!

--
From
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

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