Derek Turner wrote: > I'm reading a (very badly-written) book called the Sacred Blood (don't > ask, I didn't buy it) set in modern Jerusalem.
> It keeps referring to Herod's temple as the second temple (and a putative > rebuilding as the third).
> Sorry, but where does that leave Ezra/Nehemiah? Surely Herod's was the > third? Am I missing something? Someone on UMRA will know!
The first temple was surely Solomon's. Didn't Nebuchadnezzar burn it down? The building of the second temple by Zerubbabel is described in Ezra. Herod then did a lot of remodelling, possibly a bit more than double glazing and a conservatory but not enough to make it the third temple, and then the Romans finally wiped it all out.
We fast on Tisha B'Av (the ninth of Av, a month in the Hebrew calendar which usually coincides with July) to commemorate the loss of both temples - they were believed to have both been destroyed on the same date although about five hundred years apart which seems a bit unlikely to me but more economical with fast days. In fact Tisha B'Av is used to mourn quite a lot of sad events, I have a vague memory of Five Calamities but I can't remember what the other three are. And my mum died on that day: as someone who never wanted to cause any extra fuss, I'm sure she will have been highly gratified at the idea of being conveniently bundled in on the saddest day of the religious calendar.
And when Mashiach (the Messiah) comes, we'll presumably have the third temple.
(Having tested the limits of my memory, I now see that Wiki has extensive entries on all this and, indeed, some authorities do consider Herod's to be the third. The argument for it remaining the second seems to hinge on the continuity of religious activities throughout the work. I doubt whether there were any local planning regulations at the time that could throw any light on this ambiguity, though.)
> The first temple was surely Solomon's. Didn't Nebuchadnezzar burn it > down? The building of the second temple by Zerubbabel is described in > Ezra.
My point exactly!
>Herod then did a lot of remodelling, possibly a bit more than > double glazing and a conservatory but not enough to make it the third > temple, and then the Romans finally wiped it all out.
Ah! got it. I thought it drastic enough to make a third. It wasn't finished at the time of Jesus, did it ever get finished before the Romans destroyed it? Either way the book is in error when one of its protagonists holds Herod responsible for the second and ignores Ezra altogether!
> We fast on Tisha B'Av (the ninth of Av, a month in the Hebrew calendar > which usually coincides with July) to commemorate the loss of both > temples - they were believed to have both been destroyed on the same > date although about five hundred years apart which seems a bit unlikely > to me but more economical with fast days.
Indeed, we all do it. How convenient that Jesus was born at the time of pagan mid-winter festivals that no-one would want to abandon :)
> (Having tested the limits of my memory, I now see that Wiki has > extensive entries on all this and, indeed, some authorities do consider > Herod's to be the third. The argument for it remaining the second seems > to hinge on the continuity of religious activities throughout the work. > I doubt whether there were any local planning regulations at the time > that could throw any light on this ambiguity, though.)
I suppose it makes some sense in terms of continuity of worship but AIUI Herod more-or-less started from scratch!
I really don't know why I'm persisting with this ridiculous book. Perhaps I like frothing at the mouth at its absurdities. A bit like Mrs. Whitehouse's inability to find the 'off' switch!
Anyway, Laura, thanks for confirming my prejudices. Talking of which, my subject must look horrendously anti-semitic to the umra-uninitiated. Whoops!
On 7 Nov 2009 12:29:44 GMT, Derek Turner <frde...@cesmail.net> wrote:
>I really don't know why I'm persisting with this ridiculous book. Perhaps >I like frothing at the mouth at its absurdities. A bit like Mrs. >Whitehouse's inability to find the 'off' switch!
I feel your pain. I am in the same situation - reading a very badly written book which I should have thrown away. I this instance it's Rhinoceros by Colin Forbes. I'd never read any of his before, and I saw a large number of these big hardbacks on a stall at the local fete, so I bought one out of curiosity.
Maybe his first few were good, but he had apparently written one novel a year for gawd knows how long, and looking at the reviews it seems most of them were the same as this one. Typical example of awful dialogue: "there was a message for you, Tweed, from Monica, your assistant at West Road" - I mean, if you're going to need to explain to the readers that Monica was Tweed's assistant at West Road, you put it in the narrative, you don't get someone to tell Tweed who she is!
A frequent comment in the customer reviews is that they threw this or that Colin Forbes book away before finishing it, something they'd never done before. I'm just treating it as a purgative.
In message <b41cf5to6oiuqfl4kb2fgqp67sekl4t...@4ax.com>, Linda Fox <linda...@ntlworld.com> writes
>A frequent comment in the customer reviews is that they threw this or >that Colin Forbes book away before finishing it, something they'd >never done before. I'm just treating it as a purgative.
The first time I hurled a book across a room was a cathartic experience. (I can't even remember which one it was now).
If life is too short to drink bad wine (and it surely is), then it is also *far* too short to read bad books.
Bin it; move on. You need no further justification than "I didn't want to read it."
Nigel Eaton wrote: > In message <b41cf5to6oiuqfl4kb2fgqp67sekl4t...@4ax.com>, Linda Fox > <linda...@ntlworld.com> writes
>> A frequent comment in the customer reviews is that they threw this or >> that Colin Forbes book away before finishing it, something they'd >> never done before. I'm just treating it as a purgative.
> The first time I hurled a book across a room was a cathartic experience. > (I can't even remember which one it was now).
> If life is too short to drink bad wine (and it surely is), then it is > also *far* too short to read bad books.
> Bin it; move on. You need no further justification than "I didn't want > to read it."
The first time I threw a book across the room in disgust was the first one I bought from Amazon. It was by ARTHUR C. CLARKE and gentry lee. Turned out the great man only wrote the foreword and the one who sounds like a country and western singer perpetrated the rest. Steve Hague
On 8 Nov, 08:05, Steve Hague <steve.hag...@virgin.net> wrote:
> The first time I threw a book across the room in disgust was the first > one I bought from Amazon. It was by ARTHUR C. CLARKE and gentry lee. > Turned out the great man only wrote the foreword and the one who sounds > like a country and western singer perpetrated the rest.
The continuation of the Rama books.
It just shows that not all good engineers can write novels to please all tastes. The first one was good*, but that was witout Gentry Lee.
IMHO - good in the sense that the "Defying Gravity" series is poor.
BobE <bobemble...@googlemail.com> writes: > On 8 Nov, 08:05, Steve Hague <steve.hag...@virgin.net> wrote:
>> The first time I threw a book across the room in disgust was the first >> one I bought from Amazon. It was by ARTHUR C. CLARKE and gentry lee. >> Turned out the great man only wrote the foreword and the one who sounds >> like a country and western singer perpetrated the rest.
> The continuation of the Rama books.
> It just shows that not all good engineers can write novels to please > all tastes. > The first one was good*, but that was witout Gentry Lee.
> IMHO - good in the sense that the "Defying Gravity" series is poor.
RwR is an interesting book in that when you first read it you are blown away. Later, on re-reading I felt that it didn't really have a plot. It was a pile of interesting ideas and a bit of a "first men in the moon" story, worked together. I'm not totally convinced it holds together as a novel - the later stories at least tried to do something more in that area. -- Online waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu
Linda Fox wrote: > On 7 Nov 2009 12:29:44 GMT, Derek Turner <frde...@cesmail.net> wrote:
>> I really don't know why I'm persisting with this ridiculous book. Perhaps >> I like frothing at the mouth at its absurdities. A bit like Mrs. >> Whitehouse's inability to find the 'off' switch!
> I feel your pain. I am in the same situation - reading a very badly > written book which I should have thrown away. I this instance it's > Rhinoceros by Colin Forbes. I'd never read any of his before, and I > saw a large number of these big hardbacks on a stall at the local > fete, so I bought one out of curiosity.
> Maybe his first few were good, but he had apparently written one novel > a year for gawd knows how long, and looking at the reviews it seems > most of them were the same as this one. Typical example of awful > dialogue: "there was a message for you, Tweed, from Monica...
Oooh, thanks for the reminder. "Tweed" immediately triggered a memory that the one book featuring him was dire, but I'd forgotten the author's name.
>>I really don't know why I'm persisting with this ridiculous book. Perhaps >>I like frothing at the mouth at its absurdities. A bit like Mrs. >>Whitehouse's inability to find the 'off' switch!
>I feel your pain. I am in the same situation - reading a very badly >written book which I should have thrown away. I this instance it's
[] I ploughed through a many-volume (from a library - I didn't buy them!) epic* by L. Ron Hubbard, which was nominally SF (yes, it is the chap who went on to found the "church" of "scientology"). Looking back now, I can't think of any reason I stuck with it; maybe I had some thought that it couldn't be this bad, but I really can't remember. (I think it had "earth" in the title.)
*what's the derogatory term that would replace epic, cognate with "dirge" for a piece of music? I really don't want to call it an epic, as that has some positive feel, usually. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf ** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously outdated thoughts on PCs. **
Archduke Ferdinand found alive - First World War a mistake!
> In message <b41cf5to6oiuqfl4kb2fgqp67sekl4t...@4ax.com>, Linda Fox > <linda...@ntlworld.com> writes: >> On 7 Nov 2009 12:29:44 GMT, Derek Turner <frde...@cesmail.net> wrote:
>>> I really don't know why I'm persisting with this ridiculous book. >>> Perhaps >>> I like frothing at the mouth at its absurdities. A bit like Mrs. >>> Whitehouse's inability to find the 'off' switch!
>> I feel your pain. I am in the same situation - reading a very badly >> written book which I should have thrown away. I this instance it's > [] > I ploughed through a many-volume (from a library - I didn't buy them!) > epic* by L. Ron Hubbard, which was nominally SF (yes, it is the chap who > went on to found the "church" of "scientology"). Looking back now, I > can't think of any reason I stuck with it; maybe I had some thought that > it couldn't be this bad, but I really can't remember. (I think it had > "earth" in the title.)
> *what's the derogatory term that would replace epic, cognate with > "dirge" for a piece of music? I really don't want to call it an epic, as > that has some positive feel, usually.
Mission Earth - I never took to Hubbard's novels, so I haven't read this series. I liked some of his short stories though.
I don't think there is a single word. How about "tedious saga"?
I've never been entirely convinced that Hubbard intended to found a religion. I have a feeling that it was rather more the other way around - his bizarre notions were converted into a religion which then took over his life.
>In message <b41cf5to6oiuqfl4kb2fgqp67sekl4t...@4ax.com>, Linda Fox ><linda...@ntlworld.com> writes
>>A frequent comment in the customer reviews is that they threw this or >>that Colin Forbes book away before finishing it, something they'd >>never done before. I'm just treating it as a purgative.
>The first time I hurled a book across a room was a cathartic >experience. (I can't even remember which one it was now).
>If life is too short to drink bad wine (and it surely is), then it is >also *far* too short to read bad books.
>Bin it; move on. You need no further justification than "I didn't want >to read it."
It's true, but actually binning a book comes very hard. If I think it's feeble and don't want to finish it, or have finished it and know I'll never read it again, it goes in the Amnesty box for the next sale. I've only ever binned one book, and might even have burnt it had a bonfire of the vanities been available, and that was Shadowmancer which upset me in a number of ways and still makes me shudder to think of it.
-- Kate B
PS 'elvira' is spamtrapped - please reply to 'elviraspam' at cockaigne dot org dot uk if you want to reply personally
>> I ploughed through a many-volume (from a library - I didn't buy >>them!) epic* by L. Ron Hubbard, which was nominally SF (yes, it is >>the chap who went on to found the "church" of "scientology"). Looking >>back now, I can't think of any reason I stuck with it; maybe I had >>some thought that it couldn't be this bad, but I really can't >>remember. (I think it had "earth" in the title.) >> *what's the derogatory term that would replace epic, cognate with >>"dirge" for a piece of music? I really don't want to call it an epic, >>as that has some positive feel, usually.
>Mission Earth - I never took to Hubbard's novels, so I haven't read >this series. I liked some of his short stories though.
Yes, I have a vague feeling I had done so too. Thinking more about it, maybe it wasn't obviously terrible, thus allowing one to stay with it; it just didn't improve (or really go anywhere, IIRR). I would say to anyone, don't - it's a waste of your life. (I think it was 12 volumes, or something like that!)
>I don't think there is a single word. How about "tedious saga"?
Good.
>I've never been entirely convinced that Hubbard intended to found a >religion. I have a feeling that it was rather more the other way >around - his bizarre notions were converted into a religion which then >took over his life.
Interesting. It is still going, though - you get approached when you pass their Tottenham Court Road branch. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf ** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously outdated thoughts on PCs. **
Archduke Ferdinand found alive - First World War a mistake!
<bobemble...@googlemail.com> wrote: >On 8 Nov, 08:05, Steve Hague <steve.hag...@virgin.net> wrote:
>> The first time I threw a book across the room in disgust was the first >> one I bought from Amazon. It was by ARTHUR C. CLARKE and gentry lee. >> Turned out the great man only wrote the foreword and the one who sounds >> like a country and western singer perpetrated the rest.
>The continuation of the Rama books.
>It just shows that not all good engineers can write novels to please >all tastes. >The first one was good*, but that was witout Gentry Lee.
>IMHO - good in the sense that the "Defying Gravity" series is poor.
I thought the first Rama book was boring and didn't finish the second, or if I did then I didn't start the third.
> In message <h1zJm.2944$Ym4....@text.news.virginmedia.com>, the Omrud > <usenet.om...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> writes:
>> I've never been entirely convinced that Hubbard intended to found a >> religion. I have a feeling that it was rather more the other way >> around - his bizarre notions were converted into a religion which then >> took over his life.
> Interesting. It is still going, though - you get approached when you > pass their Tottenham Court Road branch.
There's also a branch on Deansgate in Manchester.
I shall be on Tottenham Court Road tomorrow evening. If I don't reappear within a few days, you'll know where I've gone (I plan to treat myself to ramen noodles at the Japanese Canteen before catching my train home).
>>On 8 Nov, 08:05, Steve Hague <steve.hag...@virgin.net> wrote:
>>> The first time I threw a book across the room in disgust was the first >>> one I bought from Amazon. It was by ARTHUR C. CLARKE and gentry lee. >>> Turned out the great man only wrote the foreword and the one who sounds >>> like a country and western singer perpetrated the rest.
>>The continuation of the Rama books.
>>It just shows that not all good engineers can write novels to please >>all tastes. >>The first one was good*, but that was witout Gentry Lee.
>>IMHO - good in the sense that the "Defying Gravity" series is poor.
>I thought the first Rama book was boring and didn't finish the second, >or if I did then I didn't start the third.
Just shows we're all different; I enjoyed them all, though probably the pure Clarke ones more. But they're written decades apart (the first one anyway), so the worlds in which they were written (which they reflect - not just technology, but attitudes to it) differ a lot. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf ** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously outdated thoughts on PCs. **
Archduke Ferdinand found alive - First World War a mistake!
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