LFS wrote: > the Omrud wrote: >> Gumrat wrote: >>> Marjorie wrote: >>>> ...which reminds me that at 7 I used to walk home from my piano >>>> lesson on my own, at least half a mile's walk that took me across a >>>> main road and through a park.
>> I walked to school and back on my own from the age of about five, and >> I sometimes cycled to school on my own from the age of seven. I >> suppose it was about three-quarters of a mile away. I also went to >> Cubs on my own.
> I walked to and from school (three-quarters of a mile, I just checked on > Multimap) unescorted from the age of five, as did all my classmates. At > eleven, I travelled across a fair chunk of N.W. London to School, by > bus, tube and a walk through a small park which was, now I think about > it, quite isolated. My parents' only worry was that I would get lost as > I had (and still have) little sense of direction.
> Our children walked to school and back alone from the age of nine when > they transferred to middle school, about half a mile from home but > through a rather nasty underpass which worried me a bit.
>>> How many cars on the roads then, though? And how many scary local >>> yokels in the parks? :-)
>> Cars, very few. Scary yokels - my hunch is that there were no fewer >> and no more than there are now.
the Omrud wrote: > LFS wrote: >> the Omrud wrote: >>> Gumrat wrote: >>>> Marjorie wrote: >>>>> ...which reminds me that at 7 I used to walk home from my piano >>>>> lesson on my own, at least half a mile's walk that took me across a >>>>> main road and through a park.
>>> I walked to school and back on my own from the age of about five, and >>> I sometimes cycled to school on my own from the age of seven. I >>> suppose it was about three-quarters of a mile away. I also went to >>> Cubs on my own.
>> I walked to and from school (three-quarters of a mile, I just checked >> on Multimap) unescorted from the age of five, as did all my >> classmates. At eleven, I travelled across a fair chunk of N.W. London >> to School, by bus, tube and a walk through a small park which was, now >> I think about it, quite isolated. My parents' only worry was that I >> would get lost as I had (and still have) little sense of direction.
>> Our children walked to school and back alone from the age of nine when >> they transferred to middle school, about half a mile from home but >> through a rather nasty underpass which worried me a bit.
>>>> How many cars on the roads then, though? And how many scary local >>>> yokels in the parks? :-)
>>> Cars, very few. Scary yokels - my hunch is that there were no fewer >>> and no more than there are now.
>> I share your hunch.
> There's no such thing as a free hunch, you know.
BobE wrote: > On 7 Nov, 18:30, LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>> I walked to and from school unescorted from the age of five, as did all my classmates.
> Likewise. > If my mother was waiting for me outside the school at going home time > it was real bad news - dentist or worse - buying shoes.
Or worse. Dad once met me out of Infant school - he'd been knocked off his motorbike. He wasn't badly hurt but he had come home early. I think this was the only time he was home before school finished.
LFS wrote: > the Omrud wrote: >> LFS wrote: >>> the Omrud wrote: >>>> Gumrat wrote: >>>>> Marjorie wrote: >>>>>> ...which reminds me that at 7 I used to walk home from my piano >>>>>> lesson on my own, at least half a mile's walk that took me across >>>>>> a main road and through a park.
>>>> I walked to school and back on my own from the age of about five, >>>> and I sometimes cycled to school on my own from the age of seven. I >>>> suppose it was about three-quarters of a mile away. I also went to >>>> Cubs on my own.
>>> I walked to and from school (three-quarters of a mile, I just checked >>> on Multimap) unescorted from the age of five, as did all my >>> classmates. At eleven, I travelled across a fair chunk of N.W. London >>> to School, by bus, tube and a walk through a small park which was, >>> now I think about it, quite isolated. My parents' only worry was that >>> I would get lost as I had (and still have) little sense of direction.
>>> Our children walked to school and back alone from the age of nine >>> when they transferred to middle school, about half a mile from home >>> but through a rather nasty underpass which worried me a bit.
>>>>> How many cars on the roads then, though? And how many scary local >>>>> yokels in the parks? :-)
>>>> Cars, very few. Scary yokels - my hunch is that there were no fewer >>>> and no more than there are now.
>>> I share your hunch.
>> There's no such thing as a free hunch, you know.
the Omrud wrote: > LFS wrote: >> the Omrud wrote: >>> LFS wrote: >>>> the Omrud wrote: >>>>> Gumrat wrote: >>>>>> Marjorie wrote: >>>>>>> ...which reminds me that at 7 I used to walk home from my piano >>>>>>> lesson on my own, at least half a mile's walk that took me across >>>>>>> a main road and through a park.
>>>>> I walked to school and back on my own from the age of about five, >>>>> and I sometimes cycled to school on my own from the age of seven. >>>>> I suppose it was about three-quarters of a mile away. I also went >>>>> to Cubs on my own.
>>>> I walked to and from school (three-quarters of a mile, I just >>>> checked on Multimap) unescorted from the age of five, as did all my >>>> classmates. At eleven, I travelled across a fair chunk of N.W. >>>> London to School, by bus, tube and a walk through a small park which >>>> was, now I think about it, quite isolated. My parents' only worry >>>> was that I would get lost as I had (and still have) little sense of >>>> direction.
>>>> Our children walked to school and back alone from the age of nine >>>> when they transferred to middle school, about half a mile from home >>>> but through a rather nasty underpass which worried me a bit.
>>>>>> How many cars on the roads then, though? And how many scary local >>>>>> yokels in the parks? :-)
>>>>> Cars, very few. Scary yokels - my hunch is that there were no >>>>> fewer and no more than there are now.
>>>> I share your hunch.
>>> There's no such thing as a free hunch, you know.
the Omrud wrote: > LFS wrote: >> BobE wrote: >>> On 7 Nov, 18:30, LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> I walked to and from school unescorted from the age of five, as did >>>> all my classmates.
>>> Likewise. >>> If my mother was waiting for me outside the school at going home time >>> it was real bad news - dentist or worse - buying shoes.
>> My mother was always at home, with a Tunnock's tea cake and a glass of >> milk waiting for me. Happy days.
> Were tea cakes kosher?
Probably not, I expect the marshmallow contained gelatine. But we also had Rowntree's jelly which is odd, now I think about it. The only bought cake we ever had was what I called "weekend cake" because it was bought form Waddington's the bakers at the weekend. It was battenburg, still my favourite (Husband came back from Tesco's today with two because he can't resist a BOGOF and he knew they would cheer me up).
> We never knew the brand name of tea cakes, and we rarely had them at > home, but we bought them surreptitiously at the tuck shop. A penny each.
> I should really explain what a tea cake is/was, but I'm making calzone > and it requires some effort in the kitchen.
Ooh, rolled up pizza, yum. It's Indian takeaway night here.
>>I've googled and googled, but I can't find a black and white version (or >>a coloured one of the farewell song with Looby Lou) which includes >>Looby-Lou, who is, of course, my dorter wot I want to embarrass in front >>of her friends (she owes me big!). Anyone got a link, by any chance?
>Is it a video you're looking for? I expect the tapes were shredded long ago, in >one of the Beeb's acts of vandalism.
>Now I've got the blasted song going round my head.
I still use it in school for the very youngest! if it's the last lesson of the day. I don't have reception any more, but last thing on a Wednesday I have the less able year 1 - age 5-6 - and sing "time to go home, we've had a nice day, it's time to go home, now we are waving goodbye etc"
And then say "bye-bye Possums" because that is the name of their class (all our classes keep the same animal name all through the school, the crocodiles left last year) and several of them say "bye-bye Possums" back to me. I don't think they've quite got the hang of this yet, as we say on umra.
the Omrud wrote: > We never knew the brand name of tea cakes, and we rarely had them at > home, but we bought them surreptitiously at the tuck shop. A penny each.
> I should really explain what a tea cake is/was, but I'm making calzone > and it requires some effort in the kitchen.
Sorry - that was probably confusing. Conversing with Laura, I had imagined myself in AUE, rather than UMRA. Strange British food requires explanation in AUE, but clearly not in UMRA.
>> I should really explain what a tea cake is/was, but I'm making calzone >> and it requires some effort in the kitchen.
> Ooh, rolled up pizza, yum. It's Indian takeaway night here.
It's the first time I've ever tried it from scratch - it came out pretty well, although the bread could have been a little thinner. One of them stayed perfectly sealed - the other sprang a slight leak but not enough to spoil it.
Marjorie wrote: > the Omrud wrote: >> Gumrat wrote: >>> Marjorie wrote: >>>> ...which reminds me that at 7 I used to walk home from my piano >>>> lesson on my own, at least half a mile's walk that took me >>>> across a main road and through a park.
>> I walked to school and back on my own from the age of about five, >> and I sometimes cycled to school on my own from the age of seven. I >> suppose it was about three-quarters of a mile away. I also went >> to Cubs on my own.
>>> How many cars on the roads then, though? And how many scary local >>> yokels in the parks? :-)
>> Cars, very few. Scary yokels - my hunch is that there were no >> fewer and no more than there are now.
> Just what I was going to say. My friends and I occasionally saw men > behaving oddly in the bushes (well, exposing themselves, to be > precise) but we didn't think it very important or pay them any > attention.
I know. And that's good. Perhaps? Personally, I was scared by more than one of those in my youth, and as I've related here before, have been "date" (went out for a drink with someone I thought was a friend when I was devasted about having been dumped by a mutual friend) -raped when of an age I should have known better. I remember it vividly, but didn't report it to the police and the guy who did it stalked me without repercussions for a long time after, as he thought he was in love with me and there's no way I'd have made any crime stick as it was clearly my own fault for being a drunken vaguely attractive young female at the time. I'm not sure if this is a sequitur, but I'm just wondering where all that puts people like Chris Langham and Gary Glitter, who download photos of children from the internet, IYSWIM? Not forgetting Fred and Rosemary West, of course. I'd have thought that when we were young, they would have been the local scary yokels, but not been incarcerated for their behaviour. What do you think?
-- Tout de bonbon, Anne, Seriously, Traditionally-Traditionally Built Gumbat
<elv...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote: >On Sat, 7 Nov 2009, Gumrat wrote >>Marjorie wrote: >>> the Omrud wrote: >>>> chris mcmillan wrote: >>>>> In message >>>>><f77e09e6-776f-49b5-a3e2-aae02c2f5...@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, >>>>> BobE <bobemble...@googlemail.com> writes >>>>>> On 4 Nov, 20:57, Gumrat <gum...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> I've googled and googled, but I can't find a black and white >>>>>>> version (or a coloured one of the farewell song with Looby Lou) >>>>>>>which includes Looby-Lou, who is, of course, my dorter wot I want >>>>>>>to embarrass in front of her friends (she owes me >>>>>>> big!). Anyone got a link, by any chance? >>>>>> I can't remember Looby-Loo ever being involved in the farewell >>>>>> song. Just the bricks turning over and a young Jill Archer >>>>>>singing "Time to go hoam".
>>I thought Looby-Loo came out of the brickwork right at the end to wave >>good-bye. But I didn't like Andy Pandy much, so probably wasn't paying >>attention at the back. As far as I was concerned, the week improved as >>it went on, Bill & Ben being great flobbadop, with Rag, Tag and Bobtail >>providing gentle amusement and Friday's Woodtops with Spottydog being >>the bee's knees :-)
>I am having trouble remembering this, but I thought I remembered a big >toy basket thingy that they all jumped into and then the lid closed. >Don't actually remember any bricks at all, but googling videos for Andy >Pandy (which I suppose you were looking at?) shows me my memory has even >more holes than I thought.
>I liked the Flower Pot Men best. They spoke my language.
LFS wrote: > the Omrud wrote: >> LFS wrote: >>> BobE wrote: >>>> On 7 Nov, 18:30, LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> I walked to and from school unescorted from the age of five, as did >>>>> all my classmates.
>>>> Likewise. >>>> If my mother was waiting for me outside the school at going home time >>>> it was real bad news - dentist or worse - buying shoes.
>>> My mother was always at home, with a Tunnock's tea cake and a glass >>> of milk waiting for me. Happy days.
>> Were tea cakes kosher?
> Probably not, I expect the marshmallow contained gelatine. But we also > had Rowntree's jelly which is odd, now I think about it. The only bought > cake we ever had was what I called "weekend cake" because it was bought > form Waddington's the bakers at the weekend. It was battenburg, still my > favourite (Husband came back from Tesco's today with two because he > can't resist a BOGOF and he knew they would cheer me up).
>> We never knew the brand name of tea cakes, and we rarely had them at >> home, but we bought them surreptitiously at the tuck shop. A penny each.
>> I should really explain what a tea cake is/was, but I'm making calzone >> and it requires some effort in the kitchen.
> Ooh, rolled up pizza, yum. It's Indian takeaway night here.
Oh, dear, I don't like teacakes of any kind, but I used to love mint creams!
-- Tout de bonbon, Anne, Seriously, Traditionally-Traditionally Built Gumbat
On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:37:22 +0000 Marjorie wrote :
> ....which reminds me that at 7 I used to walk home from my > piano lesson on my own, at least half a mile's walk that took > me across a main road and through a park.
Like some of the other posters here, I was left to walk to my junior school (1/2 mile or so) from the age of 7 and to Cubs (a little further and across a main road) from 8. But there were a lot less cars: in my junior school class c.1963 IIRC only two or three children (out of 40) came from families who owned a car. The really scary thing about walking to Cubs in the winter could be the really thick fogs that are now a thing of the past.
Gumrat wrote: > Marjorie wrote: >> the Omrud wrote: >>> Gumrat wrote: >>>> Marjorie wrote: >>>>> ...which reminds me that at 7 I used to walk home from my piano >>>>> lesson on my own, at least half a mile's walk that took me across >>>>> a main road and through a park.
>>> I walked to school and back on my own from the age of about five, and >>> I sometimes cycled to school on my own from the age of seven. I >>> suppose it was about three-quarters of a mile away. I also went to >>> Cubs on my own.
>>>> How many cars on the roads then, though? And how many scary local >>>> yokels in the parks? :-)
>>> Cars, very few. Scary yokels - my hunch is that there were no fewer >>> and no more than there are now.
>> Just what I was going to say. My friends and I occasionally saw men >> behaving oddly in the bushes (well, exposing themselves, to be >> precise) but we didn't think it very important or pay them any attention.
> I know. And that's good. Perhaps? Personally, I was scared by more than > one of those in my youth, and as I've related here before, have been > "date" (went out for a drink with someone I thought was a friend when I > was devasted about having been dumped by a mutual friend) -raped when of > an age I should have known better. I remember it vividly, but didn't > report it to the police and the guy who did it stalked me without > repercussions > for a long time after, as he thought he was in love with me and there's > no way I'd have made any crime stick as it was clearly my own fault for > being a drunken vaguely attractive young female at the time. > I'm not sure if this is a sequitur, but I'm just wondering where all > that puts people like Chris Langham and Gary Glitter, who download > photos of children from the internet, IYSWIM? Not forgetting Fred and > Rosemary West, of course. I'd have thought that when we > were young, they would have been the local scary yokels, but not been > incarcerated for their behaviour. What do you think?
Oooh, that's a whole can of worms you've opened there! So sorry to hear you had a dreadful experience. Fortunately for us, neither I nor anyone I know had anything like that happen (although, as you imply, some things never get told).
I suppose there's a whole spectrum of behaviour, ranging from the mildly inappropriate (and also the presumed consenting contact) to the outright forcible and violent attack. The pornography thing has reached whole new levels now, with children being abused to order just so that their photos can be stored and shared on the internet - so downloading such photos is actually contributing to the offence and encouraging other such offences. But the loner who occasionally peeks at kids in the park and likes to show them his willy is, in most cases, not likely to want to do any more than that. The trouble is that such cases are all lumped together as "sexual offenders", even though many of them are unlikely to be a threat to the public, and all victims are regarded as being terribly scarred and in need of support.
The men we used to see from time to time while we were in the park were probably the type who would never have approached us directly, but who got their kicks from watching us play or from exposing themselves to us. We would not have told our parents, because we knew that once we did this, they'd be likely to curtail our movements or make an embarrassing fuss. Nowadays there'd be real likelihood that we'd be seen as victims of abuse, and offered counselling, whereas we were quite unharmed by it, protected (psychologically) by our own innocence. The only time I found such an incident vaguely disturbing was when I was about 13 and saw a man exposing himself when we were coming out of a Girl Guide meeting. I was old enough then to realise it was a sexually provocative act, and found it a bit troubling, but even then, any follow-up action would have made things worse for me, not better.
I hesitate to blame the internet for what people choose to do, but it has opened up new possibilities to those who are sexually disturbed or depraved. International travel and "sex tourism" (e.g Gary Glitter) have also offered further opportunities for sexual exploitation of children. On the other hand, children are being taught to speak out and to question inappropriate behaviour by adults, so there is now less chance of them suffering years of abuse in institutions like boarding schools, the Church or youth groups. One of the awful things about the Plymouth nursery case was the way they selected children too young to argue or to report back on what had happened to them, but this is (one hopes) very unusual.
I still think it probable that the chances of a child in this country being a victim of any sexual misbehaviour by a stranger are no greater than they ever were.
LFS wrote: > the Omrud wrote: >> Gumrat wrote: >>> Marjorie wrote: >>>> ...which reminds me that at 7 I used to walk home from my piano >>>> lesson on my own, at least half a mile's walk that took me across a >>>> main road and through a park.
>> I walked to school and back on my own from the age of about five, and >> I sometimes cycled to school on my own from the age of seven. I >> suppose it was about three-quarters of a mile away. I also went to >> Cubs on my own.
> I walked to and from school (three-quarters of a mile, I just checked on > Multimap) unescorted from the age of five, as did all my classmates. At > eleven, I travelled across a fair chunk of N.W. London to School, by > bus, tube and a walk through a small park which was, now I think about > it, quite isolated. My parents' only worry was that I would get lost as > I had (and still have) little sense of direction.
> Our children walked to school and back alone from the age of nine when > they transferred to middle school, about half a mile from home but > through a rather nasty underpass which worried me a bit.
>>> How many cars on the roads then, though? And how many scary local >>> yokels in the parks? :-)
>> Cars, very few. Scary yokels - my hunch is that there were no fewer >> and no more than there are now.
> I share your hunch.
IRTA as "I share your lunch". and I was wondering if this was some trendy new way of stating one's position.
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:08:06 +0100, Gumrat <gum...@gmail.com> wrote: >I'm just wondering where all >that puts people like Chris Langham and Gary Glitter, who download >photos of children from the internet
I'm not sure I'd categorise those two together. GG seems to have been clearly a serial getter-up-to-no-good, whereas I do believe in the case of CL it was just prurience.
<dontusethisaddr...@springequinox.co.uk> wrote: >IRTA as "I share your lunch". and I was wondering if this was some >trendy new way of stating one's position.
I've read that the etymology of "company, companion" etc is someone who eats bread with you (cum pane etc) Dictionaryrats may care to comment/discuss. Or not
Linda Fox <linda...@ntlworld.com> writes: > On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 09:25:55 +0000, Marjorie > <dontusethisaddr...@springequinox.co.uk> wrote:
>>IRTA as "I share your lunch". and I was wondering if this was some >>trendy new way of stating one's position.
> I've read that the etymology of "company, companion" etc is someone > who eats bread with you (cum pane etc) Dictionaryrats may care to > comment/discuss. Or not
Let's get together to discuss all these sorts of words. We could have a symposium on it. -- Online waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu
the Omrud wrote: > Gumrat wrote: >> Marjorie wrote: >>> ...which reminds me that at 7 I used to walk home from my piano >>> lesson on my own, at least half a mile's walk that took me across a >>> main road and through a park.
> I walked to school and back on my own from the age of about five, and I > sometimes cycled to school on my own from the age of seven. I suppose > it was about three-quarters of a mile away. I also went to Cubs on my own.
>> How many cars on the roads then, though? And how many scary local >> yokels in the parks? :-)
> Cars, very few. Scary yokels - my hunch is that there were no fewer and > no more than there are now.
Very true. When we lived in Barrow [1] aged about 7, one evening a few of us walked down the lane to the railway line and through a farm.
Some boys we didn't know blocked our route on the way back brandishing penknives, so we went home the long way round and were very late and got told off, but didn't explain why we were delayed.
Similarly the knife-fighting incident in the "Mayor of Dudley" short story I punlished here recently was completely true. That happened in the fields near our house in Coventry.
[1] brand new Ormsgill council estate - not badlands then afaicr Rosie !
I once got found out in music, when our homework was to write a short melody with two bars each of exposition, development, restatement and conclusion (or something similar). I based mine pretty exactly on the Rag, Tag & Bobtail theme, and all was well until the music master chose to play it.
Chris -- Chris J Dixon Nottingham '48/29 M B+ G+ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar+ T+ H0 ?Q ch...@cdixon.me.uk Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.
LFS wrote: > the Omrud wrote: >> LFS wrote: >>> the Omrud wrote: >>>> Gumrat wrote: >>>>> Marjorie wrote: >>>>>> ...which reminds me that at 7 I used to walk home from my piano >>>>>> lesson on my own, at least half a mile's walk that took me across >>>>>> a main road and through a park.
>>>> I walked to school and back on my own from the age of about five, >>>> and I sometimes cycled to school on my own from the age of seven. I >>>> suppose it was about three-quarters of a mile away. I also went to >>>> Cubs on my own.
>>> I walked to and from school (three-quarters of a mile, I just checked >>> on Multimap) unescorted from the age of five, as did all my >>> classmates. At eleven, I travelled across a fair chunk of N.W. London >>> to School, by bus, tube and a walk through a small park which was, >>> now I think about it, quite isolated. My parents' only worry was that >>> I would get lost as I had (and still have) little sense of direction.
>>> Our children walked to school and back alone from the age of nine >>> when they transferred to middle school, about half a mile from home >>> but through a rather nasty underpass which worried me a bit.
>>>>> How many cars on the roads then, though? And how many scary local >>>>> yokels in the parks? :-)
>>>> Cars, very few. Scary yokels - my hunch is that there were no fewer >>>> and no more than there are now.
>>> I share your hunch.
>> There's no such thing as a free hunch, you know.
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