On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 09:18:54 +0000, The Wanderer <the.wande...@gmx.co.uk> wrote: >During my working life I had to write instructions that *could not* allow >for ambiguity, doubt or error (switching instructions for working on high >voltage equipment). I was told 'clear, concise, accurate'. Applying that >test to your words, I'd say certainly concise and accurate as a description >of the unit. Did it clearly or accurately convey what you intended to say? >well I'd have to say doubtful at best.
I have long suspected, that the problem with most instructions, is that they are written by people very conversant with the item in question and therefore there are inherent yet unintended assumptions made. Any instruction that is to be issued to the general public should be well tested on the target audience and it would immediately show up any shortcomings. It's why most people never use most of the features on most of the things they own.
> "Can you please explain what is meant by This is a reconditioned part > exchange?"
> so I explained ...
> answer came back
> "I meant the exchange bit, do you have to send the old part back?"
> err ...
> This person is qualified to undertake gas work for financial gain
> -- > geoff
Definition of part exchange
UK. giving goods as part payment: a payment method by which a buyer gives something he or she owns to a seller as part payment for a more expensive item.
>> "Can you please explain what is meant by This is a reconditioned part >> exchange?"
>> so I explained ...
>> answer came back
>> "I meant the exchange bit, do you have to send the old part back?"
>> err ...
>> This person is qualified to undertake gas work for financial gain
>> -- >> geoff
> Definition of part exchange
> UK. giving goods as part payment: a payment method by which a buyer > gives something he or she owns to a seller as part payment for a more > expensive item.
> So nothing too difficult to understand then:-)
> Adam
The Computer Exchange site is pretty unambiguous. We buy xyz for £xxx, we sell xyz for £xxx. That way the fitter gets his pcb sent promptly, and knows how much he'll receive when he gets round to sending the old one off. I imagine most of these guys want the pcb now, and the admin they take care of at the weekend. Lining up at the post office in the middle of the week? I don't think so
>>> "Can you please explain what is meant by This is a reconditioned part >>> exchange?"
>>> so I explained ...
>>> answer came back
>>> "I meant the exchange bit, do you have to send the old part back?"
>>> err ...
>>> This person is qualified to undertake gas work for financial gain
>>> -- >>> geoff
>> Definition of part exchange
>> UK. giving goods as part payment: a payment method by which a buyer >> gives something he or she owns to a seller as part payment for a more >> expensive item.
>> So nothing too difficult to understand then:-)
>> Adam
> The Computer Exchange site is pretty unambiguous. We buy xyz for £xxx, > we sell xyz for £xxx. That way the fitter gets his pcb sent promptly, > and knows how much he'll receive when he gets round to sending the old > one off. > I imagine most of these guys want the pcb now, and the admin they take > care of at the weekend. Lining up at the post office in the middle of > the week? I don't think so
Hmm, except I suppose you only want to buy one if you know you're going to sell one. Maybe forget that idea then.
> "Can you please explain what is meant by This is a reconditioned part > exchange?"
> so I explained ...
> answer came back
> "I meant the exchange bit, do you have to send the old part back?"
> err ...
> This person is qualified to undertake gas work for financial gain
> -- > geoff
Yes it's perfectly clear - we're selling you a part that we acquired in part exchange and which we've reconditioned;-) But the first part of your terms and conditions, suggests it's an exception to your usual practice of selling new parts, since you charge the full cost for new parts if an old part isn't sent in part exchange:-) But that implies that an old part has to be returned... so what actually am I suppose to do here?
I wish I had a pound or even a penny for every instance I've seen when someone thinks it's perfectly clear because they wrote it, they knew what the meant to say, and it makes perfect sense to them. What you need to test is whether it's clear and unambiguous to the actual people who need to read and understand/follow it, and you've just found out the answer to that one.
It's good to see that someone qualified to undertake gas work for financial gain makes sure they understand what's involved when things aren't too clear.
> Something like "This price is on a reconditioned/part exchange basis - > you are obliged to send us the old part back promptly as part of the > deal" would be clearer.
> I can imagine reading it and wondering if it meant that you'd > *acquired* the unit on some sort of part exchange basis (which may > well be true), but that this was for information only, and had no > relation to any part of the deal between you and the current buyer.
>geoff wrote: >> In message <1bhkn78kq0ixg$.b727wp827woq$....@40tude.net>, The >>Wanderer <the.wande...@gmx.co.uk> writes >>> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 20:43:36 +0000, geoff wrote:
>>> Well, I ain't a gas fitter, but I wasn't sure exactly what you meant >>>until >>> I looked at the T&C.
>> So what other meaning can "part exchange" have ? >> I obviously need to get to the bottom of this >> I can't see where the ambiguity lies >> I can see ambiguity in the original direction of travel, but that >>isn't what that phrase is meant to cover
>The Ts&Cs spell it out ok AFAICS. The slight ambiguity comes from the >fact you are communicating two things in your short "This is a >reconditioned part exchange" note; firstly the part you are supplying >is recon and not new, and secondly, that the deal is part ex.
>Perhaps "Please Note: This is the part exchange price for a >reconditioned part" would spell it out more clearly.
The problem there is that you get people asking how much if it isn't part exchange
In message <2thmyl3d32tl.17ualnnq2zhlv$....@40tude.net>, The Wanderer <the.wande...@gmx.co.uk> writes
>I'd go with John Rumm's suggestion, 'This is the part exchange price for a >reconditioned unit.'
>One or two others have come up with comments like 'perfectly obvious what >you meant'. If they are used to a pex system for boiler replacements, then >yes, they would have an innate understanding of how 'the system' works. >Significant, however, that this guy didn't.
>As a complete aside, do you get many who buy but don't return the faulty >item in pex?
I usually find that a gentle reminder that they haven't yet returned the old item and that I'll charge them the price of a new item does the trick
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember The Wanderer <the.wande...@gmx.co.uk> saying something like:
>> Oh fur fucks sake. >> You'd have to have your head up your arse to not know what it meant.
>Bollocks. I had to write out instructions regularly in a very precise >manner. The dictum was always 'Clear, Concise, Accurate' His wording may be >concise, it certainly ain't clear, and I'm doubting whethet it's accurate >as it stands.
>Now, unless you've anything useful to say, fuck off.
So, the term used, as has been used for generations in the world of engineering supply, isn't crystal clear?
Are you sure you aren't Roger the todger, or just being a thicko?
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:54:34 +0000, geoff wrote: > In message <GcKdnXt72N7E8WvXnZ2dnUVZ8q9i4...@brightview.co.uk>, Andy Cap > <Andy_...@nosuch.co.uk> writes >>John Rumm wrote:
>>> Perhaps "Please Note: This is the part exchange price for a >>>reconditioned part" would spell it out more clearly.
>>I would go for 'The part I am supplying has been reconditioned and the >>price is based on you returning the faulty item to me immediately.'
> Better
=================================================
Go a step further and charge a refundable deposit at the time of sale. Make it clear that refund is conditional on a faulty item being returned which is suitable for your refurbishing process. This is common practice in the motor trade and ensures that you don't lose out either to non-returners or items damaged beyond repair. Motor factors won't accept items like starter motors with broken casing lugs etc. A bit more paper work for you to do the refund but worthwhile to avoid misunderstandings.
Cic.
-- ================================================= Using Ubuntu Linux Windows shown the door =================================================
>Go a step further and charge a refundable deposit at the time of sale. >Make it clear that refund is conditional on a faulty item being returned >which is suitable for your refurbishing process. This is common practice >in the motor trade and ensures that you don't lose out either to >non-returners or items damaged beyond repair. Motor factors won't accept >items like starter motors with broken casing lugs etc. A bit more paper >work for you to do the refund but worthwhile to avoid misunderstandings.
Yes - I'm intending to start that in the new year - then the onus is on the customer to return the old item to avoid their own loss
>Go a step further and charge a refundable deposit at the time of sale. >Make it clear that refund is conditional on a faulty item being returned >which is suitable for your refurbishing process. This is common practice >in the motor trade and ensures that you don't lose out either to >non-returners or items damaged beyond repair. Motor factors won't accept >items like starter motors with broken casing lugs etc. A bit more paper >work for you to do the refund but worthwhile to avoid misunderstandings.
>Cic.
And not only that ..this process allows folk to use their cars to get to and from Motor Factors using the car that needs repair ( depending on what is faulty of course) ,sort it at home then drive back and collect their deposit on production of a serviceable item .
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:34:22 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: > We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the > drugs began to take hold. I remember The Wanderer > <the.wande...@gmx.co.uk> saying something like:
>>> Oh fur fucks sake. >>> You'd have to have your head up your arse to not know what it meant.
>>Bollocks. I had to write out instructions regularly in a very precise >>manner. The dictum was always 'Clear, Concise, Accurate' His wording may be >>concise, it certainly ain't clear, and I'm doubting whethet it's accurate >>as it stands.
>>Now, unless you've anything useful to say, fuck off.
> So, the term used, as has been used for generations in the world of > engineering supply, isn't crystal clear?
> Are you sure you aren't Roger the todger, or just being a thicko?
As I thought, nothing useful to add.
-- The Wanderer
Wine Improves with age. The older I get the better it tastes!
> >As a complete aside, do you get many who buy but don't return the faulty > >item in pex? > I usually find that a gentle reminder that they haven't yet returned the > old item and that I'll charge them the price of a new item does the > trick
In article <E$YCpbiKsg9KF...@demon.co.uk>, geoff <ra...@kateda.org> wrote:
> In message <hd516q$jq...@news.albasani.net>, Roger > <roger20nos...@ntlworld.com> writes
> >"geoff" <ra...@kateda.org> wrote in message > >news:HfkCh8V7Wd9KFwqC@demon.co.uk... > > You clearly have limited knowledge of the way the English language > >works. > Oh do fuck off
Shows good, clear, understanding of the English language.
-- *Dancing is a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire *
Dave Plowman d...@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound.
In message <f8e6adee-6551-4662-8d96-d537a41b2...@o10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, Owain <spuorgelg...@gowanhill.com> writes
>On 8 Nov, 13:58, geoff wrote: >> >As a complete aside, do you get many who buy but don't return the faulty >> >item in pex? >> I usually find that a gentle reminder that they haven't yet returned the >> old item and that I'll charge them the price of a new item does the >> trick
>"But you haven't sold me a new item"
The cost for me to replace when they haven't abided by the T&C
>or
>"But I put it in the bin"
Rare - more likely that "the plumber took it with him"
>>>> Well, I ain't a gas fitter, but I wasn't sure exactly what you meant >>>> until >>>> I looked at the T&C.
>>> So what other meaning can "part exchange" have ? >>> I obviously need to get to the bottom of this >>> I can't see where the ambiguity lies >>> I can see ambiguity in the original direction of travel, but that >>> isn't what that phrase is meant to cover
>> The Ts&Cs spell it out ok AFAICS. The slight ambiguity comes from the >> fact you are communicating two things in your short "This is a >> reconditioned part exchange" note; firstly the part you are supplying >> is recon and not new, and secondly, that the deal is part ex.
>> Perhaps "Please Note: This is the part exchange price for a >> reconditioned part" would spell it out more clearly.
> The problem there is that you get people asking how much if it isn't > part exchange
Perhaps you ought to list two prices - Price, and Part Ex price. With a note saying Part Ex price is conditional on the faulty one being sent within 7 days.
Price could simply be the "New" price plus a markup on the makers price to you. So if someone wants one without part ex, you order a new one and ship it to them at a profit.
Stuart Noble wrote: > The Computer Exchange site is pretty unambiguous. We buy xyz for £xxx, > we sell xyz for £xxx. That way the fitter gets his pcb sent promptly, > and knows how much he'll receive when he gets round to sending the old > one off. > I imagine most of these guys want the pcb now, and the admin they take > care of at the weekend. Lining up at the post office in the middle of > the week? I don't think so
That would be one way of phrasing it; "We sell reconditioned PCBs for £xx, and we will pay £yy for your faulty unit if returned to us within 7 days".
That is fair enough if you are prepared to sell one and not receive a part ex some of the time, or for that matter be prepared to buy a fualty one and not sell a recon one.
Obviously the business works on the principle that a supply of faulty ones is ongoing.
>> The Computer Exchange site is pretty unambiguous. We buy xyz for >>£xxx, we sell xyz for £xxx. That way the fitter gets his pcb sent >>promptly, and knows how much he'll receive when he gets round to >>sending the old one off. >> I imagine most of these guys want the pcb now, and the admin they >>take care of at the weekend. Lining up at the post office in the >>middle of the week? I don't think so
>That would be one way of phrasing it; "We sell reconditioned PCBs for >£xx, and we will pay £yy for your faulty unit if returned to us within >7 days".
>That is fair enough if you are prepared to sell one and not receive a >part ex some of the time, or for that matter be prepared to buy a >fualty one and not sell a recon one.
No - you're completely losing the concept of what we do
its effectively an upfront exchange service (where possible) - not a cheap supply of repaired parts
>Obviously the business works on the principle that a supply of faulty >ones is ongoing.
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