On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:20:33 -0700, Rat & Swan <lab...@cybermesa.com> wrote:
>Dean Hoffman wrote: >> Note that a ton of sludge yields under 4# of nitrogen. It takes roughly >> 1# of N to produce a bushel of corn. Yields of 200 bu./acre aren't that >> unusual anymore on irrigated farms. I think the U.S. average yield is about >> 130 bu./acre. >> Why do you think chemical fertilizers aren't as good as manure etc.?
>Thanks for the information. I guess I'm thinking mainly about low-tech, >local, sustainable solutions which don't require much transportation. >One thing for sure, manure is a renewable resource and available locally >everywhere.
It is curious how often one meets the misconception that chemical N-fertilizer and nitrogen in manure are alternative sources of nitrogen for agricultural use.
"Dean Hoffman" <dh0...@ineINbrasVALkaID.com> wrote in message > "Fran" <ma...@takethisbitoutwebone.com.au> wrote: > > "Dean Hoffman" wrote in message > >> "Russ Thompson" <p...@mwt.net> wrote: > >>> *** Long term results would be the (more rapid) loss of top soil and > > soil > >>> fertility. Agriculture without farm animals is unsustainable.
> >> I take it you mean sustainable without chemical fertilizers.
> > How do you translate Farm animals into chemical fertilizers? Farm animals > > to traditional (or organic) fertilizers I could understand but chemical > > fertilizers???????
> I'm real glad you asked that. I don't have the foggiest idea.
A most refreshing admission :-))
> How about agriculture without farm animals is unsustainable without > chemical fertilizers?
Agreed that it isn't sustainable, but it may unsustainable over a very long time span. I don't think that any production that exports the products from where it is grown/produced can ever be considered "sustainable". It is mining, but then given how long humans tend to class as a "sustainable" period we could have a long discussion about what is, or isn't, considered sustainable.
"Rat & Swan" <lab...@cybermesa.com> wrote in message
> Thanks for the information. I guess I'm thinking mainly about low-tech, > local, sustainable solutions which don't require much transportation. > One thing for sure, manure is a renewable resource and available locally > everywhere.
A quibbleable statement. Manure is indeed a renewable resource but the matter that makes up the manure must still come from somewhere. The "where" is vital in considering whether you have sustainability.
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:26:26 -0500, "ta" <t...@bellsouth.net> wrote: >from the face of the earth tommorrow and all of the land used for animal >production was to be used for non-animal food production, what would be the >short and long-term economic, ecological, and social consequences (both good >and bad)? Has anyone studied this possibility and published it?
>I'm imagining that most of the short term consequences would be negative >(starvation, economic loss, etc.), but I'm actually more interested in the >long-term consequences. Obviously since this is a hypothetical question, no >one really knows for sure, but can't we make educated guesses? Thanks for >your input.
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Zakhar wrote: > "Russ Thompson" <p...@mwt.net> wrote in message > news:4001a59b$1_2@corp.newsgroups.com... >>> Have you studied the use of green manure, with SOME of it's benefits > being >>> reduced soil erosion and improved fertility? >> *** Well Duh! We are farmers. This is our business and life. This farmed > was >> converted from conventional to sustainable in 1982 and from sustainable to >> organic in 1993. >> We attend work shops, conventions, and expos. We attend classes >> every week all winter put on by the extension. My husband has a BS in > dairy >> science with a minor in crop and soils science. We both have a certificate >> in sustainable farming. We read industry publications and talk to other >> farmers all the time. >> So in reply to your condecending question YES! We have and do use >> green manure crops on our farm. I have personally planted crops for use as >> green manure. However I can see that you are an expert and know far more >> about the subject than I so why don't you tell us what you know?
> I'm sure you know *everything* there is to know about farming in the past, > present and the future.
He knows *SOMETHING* about it, greg-george, you arrogant IGNORANT fucking wog.
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