Pope Leo X said: "What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!"15
15 The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets, by Barbara Walker, p. 471. Rev. Taylor, in The Diegesis, reports a slightly different version of Leo X's admission: "It was well known how profitable this fable of Christ has been to us." (footnote, p. 35.)
>Pope Leo X said: "What profit has not that fable of >Christ brought us!"15
>15 The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets, by Barbara >Walker, p. 471. Rev. Taylor, in The Diegesis, reports a slightly >different version of Leo X's admission: "It was well known how >profitable this fable of Christ has been to us." (footnote, p. >35.)
> >Pope Leo X said: "What profit has not that fable of > >Christ brought us!"15
> >15 The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets, by Barbara > >Walker, p. 471. Rev. Taylor, in The Diegesis, reports a slightly > >different version of Leo X's admission: "It was well known how > >profitable this fable of Christ has been to us." (footnote, p. > >35.)
In article <20020216183532.29363.00002...@mb-fc.aol.com>,
Tlwinslow <tlwins...@aol.com> wrote: >>it seems a bit suspect to me... >>It is oft-repeated, but never sourced. >Right. Like I'm the head of the Christian religion and I'm going to leave >quotes behind that can be used to destroy the institution that owns me :)
Well, the quotation, as given, is, indeed, documented -- but it is from Alexander VI (1492-1503), not Leo X (1513-1521). The original can be found in Johannes Burchard, <Johannis Burchardi Argentinensis Capelle Pontificie Sacrorum Rituum Magistri Diarium, sive Rerum Urbanarum Commentarii (1483-1506)>, edited by L Thuasne, 3 vols. (Paris: E. Leroux, 1883-1885).
I think you will find the passage near the front of volume three, in the material Burchard records on the Jubilee of 1500.
Of course, Burchard's portrait of Alexander is highly unflattering, since he did not advance in his career under the Borgia pope -- so his commentary must be taken with a grain of salt.
-- Regards, Frank Young tip...@wam.umd.edu 703-527-7684 Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891 "Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte"
>Well, the quotation, as given, is, indeed, documented -- but it is from >Alexander VI (1492-1503), not Leo X (1513-1521). The original can be found >in Johannes Burchard, <Johannis Burchardi Argentinensis Capelle Pontificie >Sacrorum Rituum Magistri Diarium, sive Rerum Urbanarum Commentarii >(1483-1506)>, edited by L Thuasne, 3 vols. (Paris: E. Leroux, 1883-1885).
>I think you will find the passage near the front of volume three, in the >material Burchard records on the Jubilee of 1500.
>Of course, Burchard's portrait of Alexander is highly unflattering, since >he did not advance in his career under the Borgia pope -- so his >commentary must be taken with a grain of salt.
Is this material available on the Web? If not, what university must I travel to in order to dust off the volume in question?
tip...@wam.umd.edu (The Bibliographer) wrote in message <news:a4oftv$b7s@rac3.wam.umd.edu>... > >>it seems a bit suspect to me... > >>It is oft-repeated, but never sourced. > >Right. Like I'm the head of the Christian religion and I'm going to leave > >quotes behind that can be used to destroy the institution that owns me :)
> Well, the quotation, as given, is, indeed, documented -- but it is from > Alexander VI (1492-1503), not Leo X (1513-1521). The original can be found > in Johannes Burchard, <Johannis Burchardi Argentinensis Capelle Pontificie > Sacrorum Rituum Magistri Diarium, sive Rerum Urbanarum Commentarii > (1483-1506)>, edited by L Thuasne, 3 vols. (Paris: E. Leroux, 1883-1885).
> I think you will find the passage near the front of volume three, in the > material Burchard records on the Jubilee of 1500.
> Of course, Burchard's portrait of Alexander is highly unflattering, since > he did not advance in his career under the Borgia pope -- so his > commentary must be taken with a grain of salt.
Thank you for this, which is highly interesting. I presume the diary is in Latin? Any idea of the exact words?
I've had a look in the Bodleian catalogue, (www.bodley.ox.ac.uk) and found him using an author search under "Burchardus, Joannes bp. of Cività Castellana and Orte (Pre20 Author) (7)".
Here's the edition you refer to:
Title Johannis Burchardi ... Diarium, sive rerum urbanarum commentarii, 1483-1506. Texte lat., publ. par L. Thuasne. Author Burchardus, Joannes bp. of Cività Castellana and Orte. Publisher Par. 1883-85 Description 3 tom. ; (80) Other Names Thuasne, Louis,
But there were some other interesting entries:
Title Johannis Burchardi ... Diarium Innocentii viii, Alexandri vi, Pii iii, et Julii ii tempora complectens, nunc primum publici juris factum comm. adjectis ab A. Gennarelli. (Gli scrittori e i mon. della storia ital.). Author Burchardus, Joannes bp. of Cività Castellana and Orte. Publisher Firenze 1855 Description cm.27 Notes [Incompl. No more publ.]. Other Names Gennarelli, Achille,
Which looks like an earlier edition. And further:
Title The diary of John Burchard of Strasburg, tr. with notes by A.H. Mathew. Author Burchardus, Joannes bp. of Cività Castellana and Orte. Publisher Lond. 1910 Description <Vol. 1.> ; (80) Notes [No more publ.]. Other Names Mathew, Arnold Harris,
Which I imagine will be easier to locate for many people. And at Cambridge University Library:
Author: Burchard, Johann, d. 1506 Title: At the court of the Borgia: being an account of the reign of Pope ALexander VI/ written by Johann Burchard; edited and translated by Geoffrey Parker London: Folio Society, 1963 245p; 22cm Notes: Bibliography : p. [232] Subjects: Alexander VI, Pope Innocent VIII, Pope, 1432-1492 Borgia (Family) Papal States--History Other entries: Parker, Geoffrey, 1943-
So we're dealing here with editions of a manuscript diary of John Burchard (sp. various), master of the papal ceremonies, according to a couple of web pages. I'd never heard of him, I have to say - any info, Mr. Bibliographer? I did find a web article: http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki/Pope_Alexander_VI.
The 'quote' has started to circulate recently combined with another 'quote' about Eusebius which is bogus, and the current pairing seems to be from a Jewish anti-Christian pamphlet. Since I happened to know the Eusebius one, I've started to be interested in this about Leo X.
(Quentin, I agree it sounds very dubious. Cautious politicians try very hard not to give handles like that to their enemies - and if the renaissance popes were anything, they were politicians).
There is a comment on the quote in the Catholic Encyclopedia entry for Leo X (online) which says that it is first attributed to him by John Bale around 1600 (i.e. almost 80 years after Leo's death) as part of anti-Catholic polemic.
Thank you for a highly interesting post, which has certainly expanded my knowledge.
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