David Goodwin of WolvesLUG, Pale Purple etc. made a blog post containing a worrying story about Moodle:
"A friend received a cease and desist letter from someone at moodle.com moaning about his use of 'Moodle Services', 'Moodle hosting', 'Moodle training', 'Moodle Consulting' and 'Moodle installation'. It appears they have a wide ranging trademark. While I understand there is a benefit to having commercial 'Moodle partners', Moodle has it's roots in the open source community - it seems rather short termed and defeating to restrict the online visibility of Moodle related resources."
I know that the idea of Moodle partners has been discussed here before, but such behaviour really does seem to restrict the ability of companies to use Moodle on their website (and hence search engines won't pick them up). Yes, I'm aware of the need to protect a Trademark to keep it valid, but still...
Tony Whitmore wrote: > David Goodwin of WolvesLUG, Pale Purple etc. made a blog post containing > a worrying story about Moodle:
> "A friend received a cease and desist letter from someone at moodle.com > moaning about his use of 'Moodle Services', 'Moodle hosting', 'Moodle > training', 'Moodle Consulting' and 'Moodle installation'. It appears > they have a wide ranging trademark. While I understand there is a > benefit to having commercial 'Moodle partners', Moodle has it's roots in > the open source community - it seems rather short termed and defeating > to restrict the online visibility of Moodle related resources."
> I know that the idea of Moodle partners has been discussed here before, > but such behaviour really does seem to restrict the ability of companies > to use Moodle on their website (and hence search engines won't pick them > up). Yes, I'm aware of the need to protect a Trademark to keep it valid, > but still...
> Tony
There's nothing stopping people using Moodle code on their websites. There's nothing to stop them making money out of Moodle. They can in fact take the whole of the Moodle code and sell this under whatever name they choose, other than "Moodle", subject to the terms of the GPL. The trademark is Moodle's way of maintaining some quality standards for those providing commercial Moodle services under that name, as well as generating some revenue stream for the core developers themselves. Most of the folk who get one of these cease and desist letters are are, I suspect, interested in using the high profile "Moodle" brand for their commercial advantage, rather than contributing to the ongoing development efforts, either directly or through financial support. Miles.
Miles Berry wrote: > Tony Whitmore wrote: >> David Goodwin of WolvesLUG, Pale Purple etc. made a blog post containing >> a worrying story about Moodle:
>> "A friend received a cease and desist letter from someone at moodle.com >> moaning about his use of 'Moodle Services', 'Moodle hosting', 'Moodle >> training', 'Moodle Consulting' and 'Moodle installation'. It appears >> they have a wide ranging trademark. While I understand there is a >> benefit to having commercial 'Moodle partners', Moodle has it's roots in >> the open source community - it seems rather short termed and defeating >> to restrict the online visibility of Moodle related resources." > There's nothing stopping people using Moodle code on their websites. > There's nothing to stop them making money out of Moodle. > They can in fact take the whole of the Moodle code and sell this under > whatever name they choose, other than "Moodle", subject to the terms of > the GPL.
Of course, but that's not what's happening here.
> Most of the folk who get one of these cease and desist letters are are, > I suspect, interested in using the high profile "Moodle" brand for their > commercial advantage, rather than contributing to the ongoing > development efforts, either directly or through financial support.
That's something of a sweeping generalisation, isn't it?
Being unable to list the software you're prepared to support on your website with coughing up a fee sounds incredibly backward to me. Personally I would resent any project that tried to take away my freedom in this way.
On 6/21/06, Tony Whitmore <schoolfo...@tonywhitmore.co.uk> wrote:
> David Goodwin of WolvesLUG, Pale Purple etc. made a blog post containing > a worrying story about Moodle:
> "A friend received a cease and desist letter from someone at moodle.com > moaning about his use of 'Moodle Services', 'Moodle hosting', 'Moodle > training', 'Moodle Consulting' and 'Moodle installation'. It appears > they have a wide ranging trademark. While I understand there is a > benefit to having commercial 'Moodle partners', Moodle has it's roots in > the open source community - it seems rather short termed and defeating > to restrict the online visibility of Moodle related resources."
The devil is in the details here. The example of Zope is useful. There is some contention and stress over who controls and exactly how you can use the "Zope" trademark, but it seems to come down to more or less not using "Zope" in the name of your business or website. But you certainly can say, "we offer Zope hosting." That seems like a reasonable approach.
If Moodle.com is literally contending that you can't say "we offer Moodle hosting and services," without paying them, that strikes me as entirely foolish and counterproductive. But I'd have to know more about the specific situation.
On Wed, 2006-06-21 at 18:46 +0100, Tony Whitmore wrote:
{-snip-]
> Being unable to list the software you're prepared to support on your > website with coughing up a fee sounds incredibly backward to me. > Personally I would resent any project that tried to take away my freedom > in this way.
I agree with Tom, David Goodwin's post gave no details, and in particular none regarding any reasons given (or not) for asking his friend to stop using the name Moodle.
Also, I can't find any references on the Moodle.com website regarding fees to become a Moodle Partner. One only has to provide some evidence of competence.
John Ingleby wrote: > On Wed, 2006-06-21 at 18:46 +0100, Tony Whitmore wrote: > {-snip-] >> Being unable to list the software you're prepared to support on your >> website with coughing up a fee sounds incredibly backward to me. >> Personally I would resent any project that tried to take away my freedom >> in this way. > I agree with Tom, David Goodwin's post gave no details, and in > particular none regarding any reasons given (or not) for asking his > friend to stop using the name Moodle.
I've now seen the e-mail that was sent. The "site" in question was actually just a blog posting that had the text "Moodle services" in it! The C&D letter is basically just a form letter and I half suspect it was sent by an automated system that searches pages for certain strings.
To quote the e-mail: "It’s come to our attention that your site is using our Moodle trademark without permission. "Moodle" is legally trademarked to describe Moodle commercial services, as that is something that only official Moodle Partners are permitted to do. http://moodle.com/partners/ Please remove all references to Moodle services, Moodle hosting, Moodle training, Moodle consulting, Moodle installation, and other such terms from your website immediately and let us know when it’s done."
Whilst I don't doubt that they have the legal right to do this (and am aware of similar enforcement of the Linux trademark in some countries), it still seems to reduce the Freedom of the Moodle software. Many web-based Free Software projects are offered as part of hosting packages and I'm not aware of any other project requiring registration (even for no money) in order to use the software name. Indeed, such a requirement would be against the GPL.
The other option is that people rebrand the software, as has been suggested. So then people end up using Moodle under a different name without any of the recognition going to the Moodle project and without raising the profile of Moodle.
> John Ingleby wrote: > > On Wed, 2006-06-21 at 18:46 +0100, Tony Whitmore wrote: > > {-snip-] > >> Being unable to list the software you're prepared to support on your > >> website with coughing up a fee sounds incredibly backward to me. > >> Personally I would resent any project that tried to take away my freedom > >> in this way. > > I agree with Tom, David Goodwin's post gave no details, and in > > particular none regarding any reasons given (or not) for asking his > > friend to stop using the name Moodle.
> I've now seen the e-mail that was sent. The "site" in question was > actually just a blog posting that had the text "Moodle services" in it! > The C&D letter is basically just a form letter and I half suspect it was > sent by an automated system that searches pages for certain strings.
> To quote the e-mail: > "It's come to our attention that your site is using our Moodle trademark > without permission. "Moodle" is legally trademarked to describe Moodle > commercial services, as that is something that only official Moodle > Partners are permitted to do. > http://moodle.com/partners/ > Please remove all references to Moodle services, Moodle hosting, Moodle > training, Moodle consulting, Moodle installation, and other such terms > from your website immediately and let us know when it's done."
This is even more cryptic considering that from looking at the Moodle.com website, it doesn't even seem like you have to pay to become a Moodle partner. I don't get it.
John Ingleby wrote: > On Wed, 2006-06-21 at 18:46 +0100, Tony Whitmore wrote: > {-snip-]
>>Being unable to list the software you're prepared to support on your >>website with coughing up a fee sounds incredibly backward to me. >>Personally I would resent any project that tried to take away my freedom >>in this way.
> I agree with Tom, David Goodwin's post gave no details, and in > particular none regarding any reasons given (or not) for asking his > friend to stop using the name Moodle.
> Also, I can't find any references on the Moodle.com website regarding > fees to become a Moodle Partner. One only has to provide some evidence > of competence.
"Moodle Partners are a group of competent professionals who are serious about providing quality services to users of Moodle software, ranging from basic support to the development and implementation of complete ICT solutions.
Our Partnership indicates that we are dedicated to a particular vision of supporting Moodle now while developing it further with common goals. All Moodle Partners contribute directly to the ongoing development of Moodle software via funding or expertise."
> The other option is that people rebrand the software, as has been > suggested. So then people end up using Moodle under a different name > without any of the recognition going to the Moodle project and without > raising the profile of Moodle.
That would appear to increase the chances of a fork, and avoiding that is one of the prime forces at work in OSS project governance.
Steve Lee wrote: > > The other option is that people rebrand the software, as has been > > suggested. So then people end up using Moodle under a different name > > without any of the recognition going to the Moodle project and without > > raising the profile of Moodle.
> That would appear to increase the chances of a fork, and avoiding that > is one of the prime forces at work in OSS project governance.
No, please understand that this only refers to use of the trademark in describing commercial services, eg "Moodle hosting". It's a name thing. I don't like us having to send notices, but I am required to protect the trademark - it's one of the stipulations of getting a trademark in the first place and an important part of keeping it.
People are free to use and modify Moodle under the GPL, and even to construct whole business models around it if they want to, I encourage that. The Moodle software can be referred to as Moodle, no problems.
This is only about describing COMMERCIAL SERVICES, nothing more, and this is a privilege that I "sell" to Moodle Partners, if you like (they pay royalties for it, among other benefits). Do you have the rights to start a McDonalds or be a Blackboard distributor without permission? No.
Please understand that I am trying to create a viable business model for Moodle as a sustainable project here. If there is no advantage in being a Moodle Partner then no-one would want to sign up, and then Moodle would not have enough income to pay programmers to work on the features and stability and documentation and downloads and community that everyone exects.
People can whine about it but where were they for the past six years of my life while I was creating Moodle from scratch and trying to show my young family that devoting all my time to Free software was worthwhile? Imagine explaining to YOUR wife why you still can't afford even a basic house to live in while overseas companies are able to make as much money as they like from your work.
Free software still costs a lot of time and money to those who make it. I am 100% committed to Moodle as Free software and this is the best way I've found to keep me working on it.
Martin Dougiamas wrote: > This is only about describing COMMERCIAL SERVICES, nothing > more, and this is a privilege that I "sell" to Moodle Partners, if you > like (they pay royalties for it, among other benefits). [snip] > Please understand that I am trying to create a viable business > model for Moodle as a sustainable project here. [snip] > Free software still costs a lot of time and money to those who make it. > I am 100% committed to Moodle as Free software and this is the best > way I've found to keep me working on it.
