I was on the way to Fort William the other day and one of those annoying wee thoughts popped into my head - namely why is the town called Dumbarton (with an 'em') but the area is called Dunbartonshire (with an 'en')?
I (originally from Leith, now in East Kilbride) asked my mother (originally from Coatbridge, now in Leith) and she said she heard the reason years ago but can't remember! Anybody got a clearer memory than ma Ma?
In article <34D2057D.5...@memex.com>, Alison Grant <Alison.Gr...@memex.com> writes
>I was on the way to Fort William the other day and one of those annoying >wee thoughts popped into my head - namely why is the town called >Dumbarton (with an 'em') but the area is called Dunbartonshire (with an >'en')?
>I (originally from Leith, now in East Kilbride) asked my mother >(originally from Coatbridge, now in Leith) and she said she heard the >reason years ago but can't remember! Anybody got a clearer memory than >ma Ma?
>Alison
Alison. The correct form is Dumbarton and Dumbartonshire - because the County, Sheriffdom or what have you takes its name from the burgh. However over the centuries various spellings were found and in the 18th century some people were using the Dunbarton spelling because it showed the derivation of the place name more clearly - Dun Breatan - the fort of the Britons. By 1900 the County Council were using Dunbartonshire as the official name of the county - although the town's name remained as Dumbarton. In the 1930's the County Council managed to persuade the Ordnance Survey to have the county shown on the OS maps as Dunbartonshire - despite strong opposition from the Town Council of the day. In 1948 the new parliamentary constituencies of East and West Dunbartonshire were created - previously the area had been represented by the constituencies of Dumbartonshire and the Dumbarton District of Burghs. Between 1975 and 1996 the local authority covering a large part of the former Dumbarton County was Dumbarton District Council - but the last local government reorganisation managed to get things wrong again and created a West Dunbartonshire Council (and for that matter an East Dunbartonshire Council.) Bet you wish you hadn't asked! Brian. --
>In article <34D2057D.5...@memex.com>, Alison Grant ><Alison.Gr...@memex.com> writes >>I was on the way to Fort William the other day and one of those annoying >>wee thoughts popped into my head - namely why is the town called >>Dumbarton (with an 'em') but the area is called Dunbartonshire (with an >>'en')?
>>I (originally from Leith, now in East Kilbride) asked my mother >>(originally from Coatbridge, now in Leith) and she said she heard the >>reason years ago but can't remember! Anybody got a clearer memory than >>ma Ma?
>>Alison >Alison. >The correct form is Dumbarton and Dumbartonshire - because the County, >Sheriffdom or what have you takes its name from the burgh. However over >the centuries various spellings were found and in the 18th century some >people were using the Dunbarton spelling because it showed the >derivation of the place name more clearly - Dun Breatan - the fort of >the Britons. By 1900 the County Council were using Dunbartonshire as >the official name of the county - although the town's name remained as >Dumbarton. In the 1930's the County Council managed to persuade the >Ordnance Survey to have the county shown on the OS maps as >Dunbartonshire - despite strong opposition from the Town Council of the >day. In 1948 the new parliamentary constituencies of East and West >Dunbartonshire were created - previously the area had been represented >by the constituencies of Dumbartonshire and the Dumbarton District of >Burghs. >Between 1975 and 1996 the local authority covering a large part of the >former Dumbarton County was Dumbarton District Council - but the last >local government reorganisation managed to get things wrong again and >created a West Dunbartonshire Council (and for that matter an East >Dunbartonshire Council.) >Bet you wish you hadn't asked! >Brian. >--
Sorry - typo in last post - for Dun Breatan read Dun Breatann. Brian.
Brian D. Osborne wrote: > ...people were using the Dunbarton spelling because it showed the > derivation of the place name more clearly - Dun Breatan - the fort of > the Britons...
Tenuous link here! While watching Telefios (Grampian/STV gaelic news) I've noticed that where possible they try to gaelicise people's names - obviously not Yeltsin, Mandela, etc. So when Sam Galbraith, Scottish Office Minister for Health, Sport and lots more, gets a mention he comes across as Somhairle Mac 'Ill Bhreatan (excuse the spelling attempt). A friend with more gaelic than me (mine is more or less Ordnace Survey gaelic and his wife is from Scalpay, Harris) explained that the name means 'son of the Briton' and that the Galbraiths were numerous about Dumbarton. He also mentioned a 'Clach nan Breatan', a sort of marker stone which stood at the limit of the land occupied by the Britons. He claimed it was supposed to be around the head of Loch Lomond and probably somewhere in the lower part of Glen Falloch. He suggested searching Tom Weir's books for its exact location, if it still exists, but I didn't relish that thought so decided to try this n.g. Does anyone know anything about this stone, does it still exist and where exactly is it?
TIA Graham -- Anti-Spam e-mail address modification in operation! Extra '.' included - leave you to work out which one to remove.
>Brian D. Osborne wrote: >> ...people were using the Dunbarton spelling because it showed the >> derivation of the place name more clearly - Dun Breatan - the fort of >> the Britons...
>Tenuous link here! >While watching Telefios (Grampian/STV gaelic news) I've noticed that >where possible they try to gaelicise people's names - obviously not >Yeltsin, Mandela, etc. So when Sam Galbraith, Scottish Office Minister >for Health, Sport and lots more, gets a mention he comes across as >Somhairle Mac 'Ill Bhreatan (excuse the spelling attempt). A friend with >more gaelic than me (mine is more or less Ordnace Survey gaelic and his >wife is from Scalpay, Harris) explained that the name means 'son of the >Briton' and that the Galbraiths were numerous about Dumbarton. He also >mentioned a 'Clach nan Breatan', a sort of marker stone which stood at >the limit of the land occupied by the Britons. He claimed it was >supposed to be around the head of Loch Lomond and probably somewhere in >the lower part of Glen Falloch. He suggested searching Tom Weir's books >for its exact location, if it still exists, but I didn't relish that >thought so decided to try this n.g. >Does anyone know anything about this stone, does it still exist and >where exactly is it?
>TIA >Graham
According to the 3rd Statistical Account of Dunbartonshire: The northern boundary of Strathclyde was the middle of Glen Falloch, north of Loch Lomond; the Clach nam Breatann, 'stone of the Britons', a group of piled megaliths still visible to the north west of the railway about two miles beyond the Dunbartonshire border, seems to have served as a Strathclyde boundary-mark.
As far as I recall the Clach nam Breatann is marked on large scale OS maps - but not so far as I can see on the 1:50000 series. I have always meant to go and look for it - though I have a horrible feeling that there is probably a forest growing round it now!
> In article <gGMVFCAW7G10E...@bdosborne.demon.co.uk>, "Brian D. Osborne" > <br...@bdosborne.demon.co.uk> writes > >In article <34D2057D.5...@memex.com>, Alison Grant > ><Alison.Gr...@memex.com> writes > >>I was on the way to Fort William the other day and one of those annoying > >>wee thoughts popped into my head - namely why is the town called > >>Dumbarton (with an 'em') but the area is called Dunbartonshire (with an > >>'en')?
> >>I (originally from Leith, now in East Kilbride) asked my mother > >>(originally from Coatbridge, now in Leith) and she said she heard the > >>reason years ago but can't remember! Anybody got a clearer memory than > >>ma Ma?
> >>Alison > >Alison. > >The correct form is Dumbarton and Dumbartonshire - because the County, > >Sheriffdom or what have you takes its name from the burgh. However over > >the centuries various spellings were found and in the 18th century some > >people were using the Dunbarton spelling because it showed the > >derivation of the place name more clearly - Dun Breatan - the fort of > >the Britons. By 1900 the County Council were using Dunbartonshire as > >the official name of the county - although the town's name remained as > >Dumbarton. In the 1930's the County Council managed to persuade the > >Ordnance Survey to have the county shown on the OS maps as > >Dunbartonshire - despite strong opposition from the Town Council of the > >day. In 1948 the new parliamentary constituencies of East and West > >Dunbartonshire were created - previously the area had been represented > >by the constituencies of Dumbartonshire and the Dumbarton District of > >Burghs. > >Between 1975 and 1996 the local authority covering a large part of the > >former Dumbarton County was Dumbarton District Council - but the last > >local government reorganisation managed to get things wrong again and > >created a West Dunbartonshire Council (and for that matter an East > >Dunbartonshire Council.) > >Bet you wish you hadn't asked! > >Brian. > >-- > Sorry - typo in last post - for Dun Breatan read Dun Breatann. > Brian.
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