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sci.physics.research |
] I understand from his arguments around pages 565-566 I made a mistake (it should be x-vt in the equation for t'), the full x' = (x - vt) / sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2) Let me show how this is consistent with what Poincaré says on pages 565-566 x_A = 0 (the angle a is arbitrary and serves as parameter to denote any point on With the help of the above formulas, I find that the space-time coordinates x_A' = 0 Then I can check that the circular (in the ether frame) wave front goes into (x_B' * sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2) + vt)^2 + y_B'^2 = (ct)^2 with ellipcity e = v/c and center [-vt * sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2), 0], corresponding Next I compute Poincaré's AB and AB': AB = sqrt(x_B'^2 + y_B'^2) = t * (c - v * cos(a)) / sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2) and check that indeed: AB + v/c * AB' = ct * sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2) which is the second equation on page 566. Then I can find the next-to-last tau = t_B' Finally, it's easy to check that: AB = c tau sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2) which is the last equation (with t corrected to tau -- that this is As AB is the distance travelled by the ligth wave and tau the time of c' = AB / tau = c sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2) While it is true that "you don't find such a nonsense" (as Homo Lykos Now I'd like to follow-up to some remarks by Harry and Homo Lykos. In article <4332845...@epflnews.epfl.ch>, ] > you seem to be saying that after discovering Special Relativity in 1905, there is "time delay" but no time dilatation in the equation linking t and In article <4335d73e$...@news.bluewin.ch>, ] Especially strange for me: if you compute in the ether frame the correction needed to synchronize Note that Einstein uses the same synchronisation procedure as Poincaré --
] that he uses the following transformation:
]
] x' = (x - v * t) / sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2) (Lorentz contraction)
] t' = t - (v * x) / (c^2 - v^2) ("local time")
transformation between ether frame (unprimed [x, y, t]) and moving frame
(primed [x', y', t']) is:
y' = y
t' = t - ((v * (x - vt)) / (c^2 - v^2))
= (t - vx/c^2) / (1 - v^2/c^2)
of the article http://www.soso.ch/wissen/hist/SRT/P-1908.pdf. He considers
two events: A (emission of a light wave) and B (detection of the light
on an arbitrary point of the wave front at some later time). Let the
space-time coordinates of A and B in the ether frame be:
y_A = 0
t_A = 0
and
x_B = ct cos(a)
y_B = ct sin(a)
t_B = t
the wave front.)
in the moving frame are:
y_A' = 0
t_A' = 0
and
x_B' = (ct cos(a) - vt) / sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2)
y_B' = ct sin(a)
t_B' = (t - (vct cos(a) /c^2)) / (1 - v^2/c^2)
an ellipse
to the picture on page 566.
AB' = x_B' = t * (c cos(a) - v)/ sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2)
equation for the local time by rewriting:
= (t - (vct cos(a)/c^2)) / (1 - v^2/c^2)
= (t - t* v^2/c^2 + t * v^2/c^2 - (vct cos(a)/c^2))/(1 - v^2/c^2)
= t - ((ct cos(a) - vt)*v/c^2)/(1 - v^2/c^2)
= t - ((AB' v/c) / c sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2))
a misprint can be seen by comparing the next-to-last and the second
equation).
travel, *as measured by an observer in the moving frame*, I deduce that
the speed of light for that observer is:
says) in the article, it's just a division away :-/
Harry <harald.vanlin...@epfl.ch> writes:
] > he changed his mind... It is easy to see that what is missing in his 1908
] > article is time dilatation:
]
] I am flabbergasted - "time dilatation" is represented by the tau on page
] 566.
tau: for an observer at rest in the moving frame (hence: constant AB')
a phenomenon won't start at the same time as for an observer in the ether
frame (because of the second term -- that's time delay), but its *duration*
will be the same (t and tau come with the same unit factor in the equation.)
Hence, in Poincaré's theory time durations have an absolute meaning.
Not so in Einstein's theory.
Homo Lykos <ly...@lykos.ch> writes:
]
] " Supposons que la différence entre le temps vrai et le temp local en un
] point quelconque soit égale à l'abscisse de ce point multipliée par la
] constante: e/(V sqrt(1-e^2)) "
]
] Poincaré gives no explanation for this (and speaks only of supposons(=we
] suppose)) and I - at least in this moment - can't understand it.
moving clocks, you get a term vL/(c^2 - v^2) where L is the distance
between the clocks projected on the direction of the motion measured
in the ether frame -- you get Poincaré's expression if you use the distance
as measured in the moving frame but corrected for the length contraction.
(who must indeed be credited for this nice idea) but comes to different
conclusions because he postulates that the speed of light is the same in all
inertial frames.
| ~~~~~~~~ Martin Ouwehand ~ Swiss Federal Institute of Technology ~ Lausanne
__|_____________ Email/PGP: http://slwww.epfl.ch/info/Martin.html _____________
The right question to ask is sometimes better
than the right answer to the wrong question [Clifford Truesdell]