A great way to keep things 2 dimensional is to practice in front of a wall. Stand about 3-6 inches from a wall and just start juggling. Once your hand hits the wall a few times, you'll learn not to move it forward.
> A great way to keep things 2 dimensional is to practice in front of a > wall. Stand about 3-6 inches from a wall and just start juggling. > Once your hand hits the wall a few times, you'll learn not to move it > forward.
> This worked for me anyway.
Thanks. Actually I did that method too and sometime really have my finger hits the wall quite hard. Recently just pop up from my mind that maybe it's a good idea to go back to the very basic, that is practice to toss only one ball to practice doing a nice throw. Wondering if it's maybe something to do with the age too:) I'm 35.
> > A great way to keep things 2 dimensional is to practice in front of a > > wall. Stand about 3-6 inches from a wall and just start juggling. > > Once your hand hits the wall a few times, you'll learn not to move it > > forward.
> > This worked for me anyway.
> Thanks. Actually I did that method too and sometime really have > my finger hits the wall quite hard. Recently just pop up from my > mind that maybe it's a good idea to go back to the very basic, > that is practice to toss only one ball to practice doing a nice > throw. Wondering if it's maybe something to do with the age too:) > I'm 35.
I'd say that standing in front of a wall is a really bad idea. It might keep your throws from going forward, but you'll end up hurting your fingers (as you've found out). I think most people have this problem once they start to get decent runs. It's frustrating, but it'll get better with practice. Don't worry about it too much - just practice what you enjoy, learn some tricks, and it'll go away eventually.
> > > > Any tips to keep the throw in 2 dimensional?
> > > A throw IS always 2 dimensional! Nothing to worry about!
> > > Sorry.
> > No, juggling is ALWAYS in three dimensions, unless it's in a video or > > photo.
> > Dave Altman
> But the throw itself will always be two dimensional.
> Sondre
Sure, if you define a specific two-dimensional plane for each individual throw. But really, you might as well define a one-dimensional path for each individual throw, making each throw one-dimensional.
> Are there any tips on how to keep the balls being > tossed so its keep vertical and in 2 dimensional?
> My left hand throw tend to go forward and when I > tried to made correction o nit, it turned out went > backward!
Two ideas for you:
1. Find a flat wall (not one with a big board along the bottom), and go and stand with your back to the wall. Are your shoulders touching the wall? If not, you're leaning forward. Try bending your knees a tiny bit, as if you were resting your bum on a little ledge. Try and remember what it feels like to stand so that your feet, bum, shoulders and head are all touching the wall.
Then stand that way to juggle.
Every time you pick up the balls, think "Am I standing up straight?" before you start again.
2. Your brain is excellent at learning how to throw properly all by itself. However, there are some things that you can do to help it. You have to reduce the problem to the simplest you possibly can. What's the simplest thing you can do that sometimes makes you throw forwards? Maybe it's throwing two balls only and then catching them. So, practice this simplest thing.
Then, you have to show your brain what the real problem is. At the moment you are probably concentrating hard on catching the balls. But your actual problem is more specific than that: throwing the balls in the correct plane. So, when you are practicing your two throws, make sure you notice EVERY TIME whether the balls went forwards or not. Even say it out loud if that helps. Don't worry about whether you caught them or how high they went or anything else. If you can't work out whether the balls are in the correct plane, because you are too busy trying to catch the balls, then forget trying to catch the balls at all.
Once you are concentrating on only one problem, and you have made it very simple, your brain will take over and it will work out all on its own how to make the balls go straight across consistently.
If you have done all this and are still finding it difficult, enlist someone else. Tell them to snap their fingers whenever they see the balls going straight. This makes sure that your brain gets really timely feedback on whether it's doing the right thing. Once your friend is helping, you can zone out completely and just stand there throwing balls again and again while your brain buzzes around magically and learns to juggle.
Once you can do two throws correctly, bravo! - start working on three :-)
> > > > > Any tips to keep the throw in 2 dimensional?
> > > > A throw IS always 2 dimensional! Nothing to worry about!
> > > > Sorry.
> > > No, juggling is ALWAYS in three dimensions, unless it's in a video or > > > photo.
> > > Dave Altman
> > But the throw itself will always be two dimensional.
> > Sondre
> Sure, if you define a specific two-dimensional plane for each individual > throw. But really, you might as well define a one-dimensional path for > each individual throw, making each throw one-dimensional.
> Guy
Wouldn't that limit the amount you could juggle to 1?
>>> A throw IS always 2 dimensional! Nothing to worry about!
>>> Sorry.
>> No, juggling is ALWAYS in three dimensions, unless it's in a video >> or photo.
> But the throw itself will always be two dimensional.
No. A throw in juggling, like most other events in the real world need at least four dimensions to be described correctly, due to the fact it's something happening over time. With your way of think thinking, it would still be (at least) three dimensional).
Which it is not.
-- Jon Solberg (remove "nospam." from email address).
> On 2009-11-09, Sondre Øverby <sondre_goes_...@sjonglering.com.nospam.com> wrote: > > Dave Altman wrote:
> >> Sondre Øverby wrote:
> >>> Eddy.Kwok wrote:
> >>>> Any tips to keep the throw in 2 dimensional?
> >>> A throw IS always 2 dimensional! Nothing to worry about!
> >>> Sorry.
> >> No, juggling is ALWAYS in three dimensions, unless it's in a video > >> or photo.
> > But the throw itself will always be two dimensional.
> No. A throw in juggling, like most other events in the real world need > at least four dimensions to be described correctly, due to the fact > it's something happening over time. With your way of think thinking, > it would still be (at least) three dimensional).
> Which it is not.
Well there are three parameters (2 for angle, 1 for speed), so you have initially three dimensions of control (ignoring spin) -- but once the thing is in the air the only variable is time. So 3 dimensional with this model (that is a 1-manifold in 3-space), I don't believe it makes sense to consider a throw as a point in 4-space - but there is a sensible function from R^4 -> R^3 that takes the initial parametrization of a throw + time to its point in space at that time (we must assume the throw was started from (0,0,0)).
In any case all of that was a gross oversimplification, there's two 3-vectors for the initial position and velocity, so that's 7-dimensional without taking into account things like body position and movement which are extremely high-dimensional but interlinked. Irregardlessly, this is all rather useless because the human brain (unlike camels) doesn't juggle/throw things by setting up and solving quadratic equations many times per second.
> > > > > > Any tips to keep the throw in 2 dimensional?
> > > > > A throw IS always 2 dimensional! Nothing to worry about!
> > > > > Sorry.
> > > > No, juggling is ALWAYS in three dimensions, unless it's in a video or > > > > photo.
> > > > Dave Altman
> > > But the throw itself will always be two dimensional.
> > > Sondre
> > Sure, if you define a specific two-dimensional plane for each individual > > throw. But really, you might as well define a one-dimensional path for > > each individual throw, making each throw one-dimensional.
> > Guy
> Wouldn't that limit the amount you could juggle to 1?
> Sondre
No, because you have to change your frame of reference for every single throw. Just like when you said that the throw itself will always be two-dimensional. My point was that if you're redefining the frame of reference for each throw, you might as well go all the way and define it as one-dimensional, rather than two-dimensional.
In fact it's probably a no anyway. Take 3 balls. If you define a path in a figure of 8 (the path each ball takes to do a complete circuit) then (in an ideal pattern) each ball will follow this path, separated by 1/3 of the length of the path. You could therefore denote the position of each ball as a single number (say the fraction of the path travelled - e.g. [0, 0.333, 0.666]). Each ball's position is then defined in terms of a single dimension.
In fact, I might even hesitantly suggest that siteswap is a one dimensional representation of juggling patterns.
> > Are there any tips on how to keep the balls being > > tossed so its keep vertical and in 2 dimensional?
> > My left hand throw tend to go forward and when I > > tried to made correction o nit, it turned out went > > backward!
> Two ideas for you:
> 1. Find a flat wall (not one with a big board along the bottom), and > go and stand with your back to the wall. Are your shoulders touching > the wall? If not, you're leaning forward. Try bending your knees a > tiny bit, as if you were resting your bum on a little ledge. Try and > remember what it feels like to stand so that your feet, bum, shoulders > and head are all touching the wall.
> Then stand that way to juggle.
> Every time you pick up the balls, think "Am I standing up straight?" > before you start again.
> 2. Your brain is excellent at learning how to throw properly all by > itself. However, there are some things that you can do to help it. You > have to reduce the problem to the simplest you possibly can. What's > the simplest thing you can do that sometimes makes you throw forwards? > Maybe it's throwing two balls only and then catching them. So, > practice this simplest thing.
> Then, you have to show your brain what the real problem is. At the > moment you are probably concentrating hard on catching the balls. But > your actual problem is more specific than that: throwing the balls in > the correct plane. So, when you are practicing your two throws, make > sure you notice EVERY TIME whether the balls went forwards or not. > Even say it out loud if that helps. Don't worry about whether you > caught them or how high they went or anything else. If you can't work > out whether the balls are in the correct plane, because you are too > busy trying to catch the balls, then forget trying to catch the balls > at all.
> Once you are concentrating on only one problem, and you have made it > very simple, your brain will take over and it will work out all on its > own how to make the balls go straight across consistently.
> If you have done all this and are still finding it difficult, enlist > someone else. Tell them to snap their fingers whenever they see the > balls going straight. This makes sure that your brain gets really > timely feedback on whether it's doing the right thing. Once your > friend is helping, you can zone out completely and just stand there > throwing balls again and again while your brain buzzes around > magically and learns to juggle.
> Once you can do two throws correctly, bravo! - start working on > three :-)
> Emily
WOW!
Prety good advice I'd say. Out of curiosity: What's your profession?
On 9 Nov, 15:55, diebreitfeld...@gmx.nospam.de.nospam.com (gantenbein) wrote:
> WOW!
> Prety good advice I'd say. > Out of curiosity: What's your profession?
Cool, I'm glad you liked it! I'm a software engineer, but I am also a qualified ski instructor, and spent a lot of time thinking about how people learn things. Maybe if I listened to my own advice more I would be a better juggler...
I also have a friend who is a dog trainer (hi Liz), so a lot of my ideas about how things work come straight from "dog training 101". Don't tell anybody!
Emily.
PS. Maybe you should take this with a pinch of salt: neither of her dogs can juggle.
> 2. Your brain is excellent at learning how to throw properly all by > itself. However, there are some things that you can do to help it. You > have to reduce the problem to the simplest you possibly can. What's > the simplest thing you can do that sometimes makes you throw forwards? > Maybe it's throwing two balls only and then catching them. So, > practice this simplest thing.
> Then, you have to show your brain what the real problem is. At the > moment you are probably concentrating hard on catching the balls. But > your actual problem is more specific than that: throwing the balls in > the correct plane. So, when you are practicing your two throws, make > sure you notice EVERY TIME whether the balls went forwards or not.
Those are very good advice:) And instead of facing the wall, next time I practice, I'll try your above tips.
> > > > Any tips to keep the throw in 2 dimensional?
> > > A throw IS always 2 dimensional! Nothing to worry about!
> > > Sorry.
> > No, juggling is ALWAYS in three dimensions, unless it's in a video or > > photo.
> > Dave Altman
> But the throw itself will always be two dimensional.
> Sondre
Yes, I absolutely agree with you that a throw will always goes 2 dimensionally. What I was trying to ask is how to keep throwing balls in 2 dimensional form in front of me (haha I still can't find better way to describe it). It's just something to do with my English, since it's not my primary language. And hey, btw, I'd watched your unedited practice session vid, and I love it.
> Are there any tips on how to keep the balls being > tossed so its keep vertical and in 2 dimensional?
> My left hand throw tend to go forward and when I > tried to made correction o nit, it turned out went > backward!
> Thanks in advance...
There's two problems that contribute to this problem. The most occurring oneis that people use their upper arms when juggling. Movement of the upper arms will automatically result in movement in the sagital plane (forward/backward). Since your other hand is to the side, not the front or back, using just your lower arms to juggle is way more effective. Practice throwing one ball, while paying attention that you only use your lower arm. If needed, you can ask somebody to prevent your upper arm from moving forward to check this.
The other problem that people sometimes have is that they release their balls to soon (or to late, in which case they move backward or start juggling higher and higher). If you release the balls before the angle of your elbow is at 90 degrees, it will fly forward. I assume that you don't move your wrist while juggling. If you do, stop it, the muscles in your arm are much bigger and more effective at throwing stuff. Also, using your wrist to much might lead to injuries such as tendonitis, something you don't want to experience.
To sum it up:
- Practice throwing and catching one ball. - Don't use your upper arm to throw. - Don't use your wrist to throw. - Make sure you release the balls when your elbow is at (about) a 90 degree angle. - If you walk forward during practice, stop, and start the pattern again.
> There's two problems that contribute to this problem. The most occurring > oneis that people use their upper arms when juggling. Movement of the > upper arms will automatically result in movement in the sagital plane > (forward/backward). Since your other hand is to the side, not the front or > back, using just your lower arms to juggle is way more effective. Practice > throwing one ball, while paying attention that you only use your lower > arm. If needed, you can ask somebody to prevent your upper arm from moving > forward to check this.
> The other problem that people sometimes have is that they release their > balls to soon (or to late, in which case they move backward or start > juggling higher and higher). If you release the balls before the angle of > your elbow is at 90 degrees, it will fly forward. I assume that you don't > move your wrist while juggling. If you do, stop it, the muscles in your > arm are much bigger and more effective at throwing stuff. Also, using your > wrist to much might lead to injuries such as tendonitis, something you > don't want to experience.
> To sum it up:
> - Practice throwing and catching one ball. > - Don't use your upper arm to throw. > - Don't use your wrist to throw. > - Make sure you release the balls when your elbow is at (about) a 90 > degree angle. > - If you walk forward during practice, stop, and start the pattern again.
> Hope this helps.
> Harm
Yes, yes, yes! I think that's a very reasonable & helpful advice. I was indeed wondering should I use my wrist or not to throw. Many thanks Harm.
> On 9 Nov, 15:55, diebreitfeld...@gmx.nospam.de.nospam.com (gantenbein) > wrote:
> > WOW!
> > Prety good advice I'd say. > > Out of curiosity: What's your profession?
> Cool, I'm glad you liked it! I'm a software engineer, but I am also a > qualified ski instructor, and spent a lot of time thinking about how > people learn things. Maybe if I listened to my own advice more I would > be a better juggler...
> I also have a friend who is a dog trainer (hi Liz), so a lot of my > ideas about how things work come straight from "dog training 101". > Don't tell anybody!
> Emily.
> PS. Maybe you should take this with a pinch of salt: neither of her > dogs can juggle.
Hi Emily,
I recognized the 'click-training' thing, because I've read about it somewhere when we got our dog. The posture advice however is unlikely to come from dog training (at least I hope your fried doesn't make dogs stand against a wall with there shoulders and bums touching the wall). So that's likely to come from your experience as ski instructor. I actually assumed you were doing something like that for a living. Anyway thanks again for the advice, I'll try it on some of the problems I'm having with my juggling.
On 10 Nov, 11:58, diebreitfeld...@gmx.nospam.de.nospam.com
(gantenbein) wrote: > > I also have a friend who is a dog trainer (hi Liz), so a lot of my > > ideas about how things work come straight from "dog training 101". > The posture advice however is unlikely to > come from dog training (at least I hope your fried doesn't make dogs stand > against a wall with there shoulders and bums touching the wall). So that's
That stems from a time when somebody put a photo from our local juggling club on Facebook and there I was with embarrassingly bad posture. Ever since then I got a bee in my bonnet about it and now I cover posture at the beginning of any beginner workshop.
> likely to come from your experience as ski instructor.
Aha... in fact in skiing, it's important to be perpendicular to the slope. It's the front end of the ski that does the steering; standing straight up and down puts most of the weight on the back of the skis and gives very poor steering :-)
> you were doing something like that for a living. Anyway thanks again for > the advice, I'll try it on some of the problems I'm having with my > juggling.
Cool: if you do that, could you post back with how it went?
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