rec.games.go Google Group

Xbox 360 Repair Guide Review

noey.w...@gmail.com (nuri) — Sun, 12 Dec 2009 03:55:56 UT

Xbox 360 Repair can be done youself and with ease, using the new Xbox
360 Repair guide here
[link]
Go XBox Mad :)
Nuri Widy
Marketing
[link]

Re: List of Go computer implementations?

trarve...@hotmovemail.com (rt) — Thu, 12 Dec 2009 23:16:46 UT

Thanks to all those who responded!

Rules FAQ

jas...@snafu.de (Robert Jasiek) — Thu, 12 Dec 2009 21:41:49 UT

Title: Rules FAQ
Author: Robert Jasiek <jas...@snafu.de>
Frequency: monthly
Last Update: 2009-02-12; First Day: 1999-04-12
Distribution: rec.games.go
Copyright: free non-commercial usage for promotion
0 CONTENTS
1 Purpose of this Paper
2 Information for Beginners
3 Important Concepts
4 Particular Rules

Re: Teaching Chinese Rules to Beginners ?

n...@maproom.co.uk (Nick Wedd) — Fri, 12 Dec 2009 10:32:38 UT

In message <h4o2i5lokpv7um9nufkhds764n6fc q0...@4ax.com>, Robert Jasiek
<jas...@snafu.de> writes
The results of the "Man [sic] vs MoGo challenge" in Cádiz, with the game
records, are given at [link] .
The game referred to here is the first 9x9 game with Chun Poong Jho 8p.

Re: Teaching Chinese Rules to Beginners ?

carni...@gmail.com (marc gonzalez-carnicer) — Fri, 12 Dec 2009 09:09:59 UT

For what I heard, the pro was indeed informed about the ruleset.

Re: Teaching Chinese Rules to Beginners ?

jas...@snafu.de (Robert Jasiek) — Thu, 12 Dec 2009 20:58:16 UT

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:15:18 -0800 (PST), marc gonzalez-carnicer
If so, it would be interesting to hear whether the tournament
director, game manager or whoever has told him before under which
rules the game was being played.

Re: Teaching Chinese Rules to Beginners ?

carni...@gmail.com (marc gonzalez-carnicer) — Thu, 12 Dec 2009 20:15:18 UT

i was not there, and i've only heard incomplete oral reports. if i
understood correctly, the pro thought he was leading by .5 with
japanese rules, but with chinese rules he actually lost by .5 or 1.5.
i do not know if he passed when he could have filled dame, we have to
wait for a more complete report.

Re: database of rated/pro games

dohduh...@yahoo.com (sobriquet) — Wed, 12 Dec 2009 17:43:15 UT

On 9 dec, 09:07, Ben Lambrechts <lambrechts.benedic...@gmail.c om>
wrote:
Great. That yields a collection of almost 500,000 games.

Re: Teaching Chinese Rules to Beginners ?

jas...@snafu.de (Robert Jasiek) — Wed, 12 Dec 2009 16:50:07 UT

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:06:30 -0800 (PST), marc gonzalez-carnicer
So who was confused and how?

Re: Teaching Chinese Rules to Beginners ?

carni...@gmail.com (marc gonzalez-carnicer) — Wed, 12 Dec 2009 16:06:30 UT

have you heard about the result of Moyo vs Chun Poong Jo 8p that was
played 2 days ago in Cadiz, Spain?
there was some confusion with the rules and the counting system.

Re: database of rated/pro games

joel.ol...@cox.net (Joel Olson) — Wed, 12 Dec 2009 10:06:20 UT

There were files that came with MoyoGo Studio, but I don't know
how they were encoded.

Re: database of rated/pro games

lambrechts.benedic...@gmail.com (Ben Lambrechts) — Wed, 12 Dec 2009 08:07:11 UT

KGS :
[link]
[link]
I want to know too if someone has games from IGS, OroBaduk, Tygem,
TOM, ...
-Ben

database of rated/pro games

dohduh...@yahoo.com (sobriquet) — Tue, 12 Dec 2009 21:47:20 UT

Hello.
Lately, I've tried Drago with a collection of over 40,000 pro games,
and it's nice to search for patterns in such a big collection of
games.
Does anyone else have a large collection of pro or rated games to
share (e.g. via bittorrent or rapidshare) or know of other collections
of games (preferably .sgf files) that can be downloaded somewhere?

Re: Teaching Chinese Rules to Beginners ?

damien.doli...@inria.fr.invalid (Planar) — Tue, 12 Dec 2009 16:07:27 UT

In article <REM-2009dec03-...@Yahoo.Com>,
seeWebInst...@rem.intarweb.org (Robert Maas, [link])
wrote:
Computer programs are just beginning to get good enough to beat pros on 9x9
without handicap. Are you sure 9x9 is fully analyzed?

Re: Approaching a Definition of Ko

jas...@snafu.de (Robert Jasiek) — Tue, 12 Dec 2009 13:53:19 UT

On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 03:52:07 -0800 (PST), alex
What do you mean those keywords to suggest us?

Re: Approaching a Definition of Ko

alexander.duytschae...@gmail.com (alex) — Tue, 12 Dec 2009 11:52:07 UT

On Dec 8, 10:39 am, seeWebInst...@rem.intarweb.org (Robert Maas,
Just FYI - have a look at the page's [1] keywords... before this gets
totally out of hand.
-alex-
[1] [link]

Re: Approaching a Definition of Ko

jas...@snafu.de (Robert Jasiek) — Tue, 12 Dec 2009 10:16:13 UT

On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 01:39:48 -0800, seeWebInst...@rem.intarweb.org
1) To contribute to a solution of the game of Go. Although there are
also alternative ways to solve Go, it might turn out that a definition
of ko eases later progress in finding a solution. In fact, it becomes
possible to define and then study the behaviour of more sophisticated

Re: List of Go computer implementations?

seewebinst...@rem.intarweb.org (Robert Maas, http://tinyurl.com/uh3t) — Tue, 12 Dec 2009 10:04:06 UT

<[link]>
Typo: ... They embellished it [wish] a decorative user interface ...
Correction: [with]

Re: What the CAS Decision on Claudia Pechstein Means for Go

jas...@snafu.de (Robert Jasiek) — Tue, 12 Dec 2009 09:45:01 UT

In a preliminary urgent decision (German: Eilentscheidung), the Swiss
federal court (Bundesgericht, highest Swiss court) in Lausanne has
just allowed Pechstein to attend the ice sprinting world cup in Salt
Lake City, which is Pechstein's last (and only?) chance to qualify for
the olympics. The decision is only of procedural nature and not a

Re: Approaching a Definition of Ko

seewebinst...@rem.intarweb.org (Robert Maas, http://tinyurl.com/uh3t) — Tue, 12 Dec 2009 09:39:48 UT

For what purpose would anybody ever need to make such a definition?
No such definition is needed to specify the rules of the game,
nor to introduce one of the most interesting/complicated aspects of
tactics and strategy. For either, all you need is:
- Introduce the basic rules of play, not including any ko rule.

Approaching a Definition of Ko

jas...@snafu.de (Robert Jasiek) — Mon, 12 Dec 2009 22:55:29 UT

It has turned out to be yet tougher than expected to find a useful
general definition of kos consisting of any number of intersections so
that not(!) all strings in all positions are ko strings. For the
moment, I don't bother you with the details of precise definitions yet
but outline my current approach. Kos consist of intersections - the ko

Re: List of Go computer implementations?

wilem...@googlemail.com (wilemien) — Mon, 12 Dec 2009 19:10:04 UT

see sensei's library (where else for a starter )
[link]

Re: Korean insei league on KGS!

backp...@gmail.com (Alexandre Dinerchtein) — Mon, 12 Dec 2009 16:33:39 UT

We already have more than 40 registered players from 7d to 10k.
Will probably add more groups, more lectures. Will even think about
making the prizes in top groups biggers.
Still accepting new members!

Re: Why Does Richard Like Ing-Rules?

jas...@snafu.de (Robert Jasiek) — Mon, 12 Dec 2009 15:46:46 UT

On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 17:11:26 +0200, Matti Siivola
By filling the result form or marking the result in the walllist.

Re: Why Does Richard Like Ing-Rules?

matti.siiv...@helsinki.fi (Matti Siivola) — Mon, 12 Dec 2009 15:11:26 UT

If you are a lazy referee you may say to the players that don't attempt
to claim the win by the opponent being late, if his clocks does not show
it. Less lazy referees may choose to not let players off the hook.
That rule is not correct. By chance it may seem to apply. If both
players are late at least one hour, they both lose. To avoid this loss

Re: Why Does Richard Like Ing-Rules?

n...@maproom.co.uk (Nick Wedd) — Mon, 12 Dec 2009 11:21:09 UT

In message <hfifqq$p...@oravannahka.helsi nki.fi>, Matti Siivola
<Matti.Siiv...@helsinki.fi> writes
As a referee, I do not want to be distracted by a series of people (most
of whose faces I do not recognise) telling me (perhaps mistakenly) that
they are white, and (perhaps falsely) that they have been to their

Re: Why Does Richard Like Ing-Rules?

matti.siiv...@helsinki.fi (Matti Siivola) — Mon, 12 Dec 2009 08:53:47 UT

By making a move on the board or pressing the clock a player can show
that he has been present in time. If he is white and black's clock has
been started by the referee, and black is not present the player can
report him as present to the referee, or make sure he is at the board
when exactly 60 minutes have elapsed. If the opponent is present, the

Re: Why Does Richard Like Ing-Rules?

jas...@snafu.de (Robert Jasiek) — Mon, 12 Dec 2009 07:40:57 UT

On Sun, 06 Dec 2009 20:41:04 +0000, richard
Ah, ok, in the context of these additional tournament rules you are
right.

Re: More KGS Censorship

z...@127.0.0.1 (z1) — Sun, 12 Dec 2009 21:43:33 UT

Hal you protest too much.
You have known for a long time now how things work at KGS, and yet you
insist to burn your fingers when there.
You are not stupid are you ? :)

Re: Why Does Richard Like Ing-Rules?

mullens-delete...@ntlworld.com (richard) — Sun, 12 Dec 2009 20:53:53 UT

....
The current rule as interpreted literally is unenforceable without White notifying the referee of his presence.
It states "If a player is late 60 minutes or more, he loses his game".
If Black arrives after 55 minutes and White returns 10 minutes later then Black could claim a win for white's "lateness". The

Re: Why Does Richard Like Ing-Rules?

mullens-delete...@ntlworld.com (richard) — Sun, 12 Dec 2009 20:41:04 UT

The EGF rules appear to state that
"Prisoners and overtime stones must remain clearly visible to the opponent at all times, even if Area Scoring is used. "
This was the basis of my assertion.
Exchanging prisoners may not alter the score - but such prisoners will surely no longer be visible as prisoners.

Re: List of Go computer implementations?

n...@maproom.co.uk (Nick Wedd) — Sun, 12 Dec 2009 20:06:50 UT

In message <4B198FB2.F64...@hotMOVEmail.c om>, rt
<traRvE...@hotMOVEmail.com> writes
You don't mention what operating system you have, nor whether you are
willing to pay. But see [link]
where you can specify these things. Unfortunately it includes many
obsolete programs.

Re: List of Go computer implementations?

rico...@free.fr (ricoh51) — Sun, 12 Dec 2009 19:50:18 UT

rt a écrit :
[link]

Re: List of Go computer implementations?

alan.came...@iname.com (Alan Cameron) — Fri, 12 Dec 2009 22:54:18 UT

Try [link]

List of Go computer implementations?

trarve...@hotmovemail.com (rt) — Fri, 12 Dec 2009 22:39:46 UT

Is there a listing anywhere? Looking for something to play now and then.

Re: Teaching Chinese Rules to Beginners ?

terryben...@nyc.rr.com (Terrybenson) — Fri, 12 Dec 2009 20:13:01 UT

I have used area counting with beginners since 1975 when it was made
clear to me (who learned with Japanese rules) how much better area
rules were.
Naturally I now use AGA rules with pass stones since they rather
seamlessly bridge the differences between territory and area.
Beginners can be sure a game is over. They kill everything they can

Re: Why Does Richard Like Ing-Rules?

n...@maproom.co.uk (Nick Wedd) — Fri, 12 Dec 2009 11:02:01 UT

In message <VtYRm.63136$064.50...@newsfe1 7.ams2>, richard
<mullens-delete...@ntlworld.co m> writes
As a referee, I don't like unenforceable rules.
If Black has not made his first move, Black's clock will be running.
While it is Black's move, I do not consider that White should have any
obligations to be present at the board, and I certainly do not think

Re: Why Does Richard Like Ing-Rules?

jas...@snafu.de (Robert Jasiek) — Fri, 12 Dec 2009 07:44:20 UT

On Fri, 04 Dec 2009 00:12:37 +0000, richard
Compare with the actual rules:
[link]

Re: Why Does Richard Like Ing-Rules?

mullens-delete...@ntlworld.com (richard) — Fri, 12 Dec 2009 00:12:37 UT

Thank you for this clarification.
However, I wonder if it is written down anywhere other than here or,
if indeed, it is normal practice.
The situation I envisage is were the first player arrives 45 minutes late and claims a victory after 15 minutes.
One might argue that the player should wait 60 minutes before such a claim - or that he should wait until an hour has elapsed on

Re: Teaching Chinese Rules to Beginners ?

jas...@snafu.de (Robert Jasiek) — Thu, 12 Dec 2009 21:17:57 UT

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 11:59:31 -0800, seeWebInst...@rem.intarweb.org
It is becoming more and more broken WRT to newsgroup search. They
simply don't care about newsnet. Even the most recent messages they
are having great difficulties with. Instead they show every online
newspaper message well in the Web search.

Re: Go terms easy to understand but difficult to explain

seewebinst...@rem.intarweb.org (Robert Maas, http://tinyurl.com/uh3t) — Thu, 12 Dec 2009 21:01:07 UT

Google search for the hundred most recent articles in rec.games.go
turned this up, so either Google is grossly broken in yet another
way beyond the many ways I already know that it's broken, or this
newsgroup has been very inactive over the past five years.
The large square eye is effectively 5 liberties (throw in 3,

Re: Teaching Chinese Rules to Beginners ?

seewebinst...@rem.intarweb.org (Robert Maas, http://tinyurl.com/uh3t) — Thu, 12 Dec 2009 19:59:31 UT

Google search for the hundred most recent articles in rec.games.go
turned this up, so either Google is grossly broken in yet another
way beyond the many ways I already know that it's broken, or this
newsgroup has been very inactive over the past five years.
When teaching absolute beginners, including computer software I

Xbox 360 Repair Guide Review

komis...@gmail.com (3ndy) — Tue, 12 Dec 2009 18:19:47 UT

Xbox 360 Repair can be done youself and with ease, using the new Xbox
360 Repair
guide here
[link]
Go XBox Mad :)
enri patuly
Marketing
[link]

Re: Arbitrary Decision Decides the European Open Go Champion 2009

jas...@snafu.de (Robert Jasiek) — Tue, 12 Dec 2009 12:05:21 UT

On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 09:49:48 +0100, Robert Jasiek <jas...@snafu.de>
wrote:
Just for theoretical study, these results are also interesting for an
application of iterative direct comparison as the first tiebreaker to
the four top MMS players group, what surprisingly(?) IS possible here:
DCi

Arbitrary Decision Decides the European Open Go Champion 2009

jas...@snafu.de (Robert Jasiek) — Tue, 12 Dec 2009 08:49:48 UT

This is the top of the final results table:
[link]
1 Kim Eunkuk 7D KR 14+ 10+ 7+ 5- 25+ 11+ 3+ 6+ 2+ 4- 8 42 408 1
2 Hwang In-seong 7D KR 33+ 8+ 6+ 3- 14+ 4+ 5+ 15+ 1- 13+ 8 42 408 0
3 Kim Joon-Sang 7D KR 27+ 11+ 4+ 2+ 5- 9+ 1- 13+ 23+ 7+ 8 42 407
4 Oh Chi-Min 7D KR 24+ 23+ 3- 17+12+ 2- 26+11+ 10+ 1+ 8 42 403

Re: [ANN] Advances in Go theory: announcing a new type of ko

jas...@snafu.de (Robert Jasiek) — Tue, 12 Dec 2009 07:03:34 UT

This is not a new ko type, not even a new ko rules type. It is a
variant of my fixed game end rule construction to end the game on move
number x.

Re: [ANN] Advances in Go theory: announcing a new type of ko

bignose+hates-s...@benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney) — Mon, 11 Nov 2009 23:48:02 UT

Perhaps surprisingly, this can be a problem in real-life play. In fact,
even fewer moves are sufficient to violate the Database Ko when no
computer is involved. When this occurs, though, often the resulting
effects cause misdiagnosis of the ko, which I suspect is why this type
of ko is not more widely acknowledged.

[ANN] Advances in Go theory: announcing a new type of ko

alexander.duytschae...@gmail.com (alex) — Mon, 11 Nov 2009 22:42:52 UT

Ko being a thorny issue in Go rulesets, during my quest for the Holy
Grail in GoRulesLand I stumbled over a new type of ko, yet to be fully
explored: the Database Ko, a discovery which I wanted to share with
the expert community.
For details, see [link]
-alex-

Re: [OT] KSY Re: European Go Championship: Preliminary Votes

mullens-delete...@ntlworld.com (richard) — Mon, 11 Nov 2009 18:32:27 UT

alex wrote:
Thank you !
I liked very much issue 79 with your report on pages 6,7 the bio on page 4, the report on Prague, the description of the Kirina
go school in Seoul and much more.
Richard

Re: Why Does Richard Like Ing-Rules?

damien.doli...@inria.fr.invalid (Planar) — Mon, 11 Nov 2009 14:29:28 UT

In article <A8_Pm.35526$Z_5.15...@newsfe1 0.ams2>,
Both lose! -- finally a good use for the strange features of Japanese rules :-)