can you use metal switch plates and receptacle covers on an ungrounded circuit protected by a GFCI, or ONLY on a grounded circuit?
I think SWMBO has changed her mind on decoration for the living room, and I happen to have a stack of the good 40 thou beveled edge brass plates (leftovers from "my" room) but am unsure if it's copacetic to use them...
On 6 Nov, 02:43, Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
> can you use metal switch plates and receptacle covers on an ungrounded > circuit protected by a GFCI, or ONLY on a grounded circuit?
> I think SWMBO has changed her mind on decoration for the living room, > and I happen to have a stack of the good 40 thou beveled edge brass > plates (leftovers from "my" room) but am unsure if it's copacetic to use > them...
thirty-six wrote: > On 6 Nov, 02:43, Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote: >> can you use metal switch plates and receptacle covers on an ungrounded >> circuit protected by a GFCI, or ONLY on a grounded circuit?
>> I think SWMBO has changed her mind on decoration for the living room, >> and I happen to have a stack of the good 40 thou beveled edge brass >> plates (leftovers from "my" room) but am unsure if it's copacetic to use >> them...
> As long as you insure you wear a rubber suit.
bah, thought I'd cancelled the msg. before anyone read it.
In case you're wondering, yes, I did intend to send it to another group.
> thirty-six wrote: > > On 6 Nov, 02:43, Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote: > >> can you use metal switch plates and receptacle covers on an ungrounded > >> circuit protected by a GFCI, or ONLY on a grounded circuit?
> >> I think SWMBO has changed her mind on decoration for the living room, > >> and I happen to have a stack of the good 40 thou beveled edge brass > >> plates (leftovers from "my" room) but am unsure if it's copacetic to use > >> them...
> > As long as you insure you wear a rubber suit.
> bah, thought I'd cancelled the msg. before anyone read it.
> In case you're wondering, yes, I did intend to send it to another group.
In article <hd02gl01...@news3.newsguy.com>, Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
> can you use metal switch plates and receptacle covers on an ungrounded > circuit protected by a GFCI, or ONLY on a grounded circuit?
What is GFCI?
> I think SWMBO has changed her mind on decoration for the living room, > and I happen to have a stack of the good 40 thou beveled edge brass > plates (leftovers from "my" room) but am unsure if it's copacetic to use > them...
> In article <hd02gl01...@news3.newsguy.com>, > Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
> > can you use metal switch plates and receptacle covers on an ungrounded > > circuit protected by a GFCI, or ONLY on a grounded circuit?
> What is GFCI?
> > I think SWMBO has changed her mind on decoration for the living room, > > and I happen to have a stack of the good 40 thou beveled edge brass > > plates (leftovers from "my" room) but am unsure if it's copacetic to use > > them...
Michael Press wrote: > In article <hd02gl01...@news3.newsguy.com>, > Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
>> can you use metal switch plates and receptacle covers on an ungrounded >> circuit protected by a GFCI, or ONLY on a grounded circuit?
> What is GFCI?
Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter
cuts power to the circuit if it detects an imbalance in current between "hot" and "neutral," used in wet or potentially wet locations and also to allow you to use grounded type receptacles where no ground wiring exists (e.g. in a very old house)
On 7 Nov, 02:31, Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
> > What is GFCI?
> Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter
or ground force colossal interceptor
Which makes the more interesting google search?
BTW I wasn't intending any accuracy there to the abbreviations true meaning, it just came out similar, I'd never heard of a gfci, we call em RCDs residual current device and the older kit is ELCB or earth leakage circuit breaker.
In article <hd2mi902...@news6.newsguy.com>, Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
> Michael Press wrote: > > In article <hd02gl01...@news3.newsguy.com>, > > Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
> >> can you use metal switch plates and receptacle covers on an ungrounded > >> circuit protected by a GFCI, or ONLY on a grounded circuit?
> > What is GFCI?
> Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter
> cuts power to the circuit if it detects an imbalance in current between > "hot" and "neutral," used in wet or potentially wet locations and also > to allow you to use grounded type receptacles where no ground wiring > exists (e.g. in a very old house)
The problem with a metal face plate where the box is not grounded is if a mechanical fault should form a conducting bridge between the box and the high side or load neutral. Then a person touching the face plate can form a short circuit to ground. If the receptacle is a GFCI receptacle then people are protected from this eventuation. Hence the metal face plate is a greater risk on a non-GFCI protected receptacle than on a GFCI receptacle.
Michael Press wrote: > In article <hd2mi902...@news6.newsguy.com>, > Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
>> Michael Press wrote: >>> In article <hd02gl01...@news3.newsguy.com>, >>> Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
>>>> can you use metal switch plates and receptacle covers on an ungrounded >>>> circuit protected by a GFCI, or ONLY on a grounded circuit? >>> What is GFCI? >> Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter
>> cuts power to the circuit if it detects an imbalance in current between >> "hot" and "neutral," used in wet or potentially wet locations and also >> to allow you to use grounded type receptacles where no ground wiring >> exists (e.g. in a very old house)
> The problem with a metal face plate where the box is > not grounded is if a mechanical fault should form a > conducting bridge between the box and the high side or > load neutral. Then a person touching the face plate can > form a short circuit to ground. If the receptacle is a > GFCI receptacle then people are protected from this > eventuation. Hence the metal face plate is a greater > risk on a non-GFCI protected receptacle than on a GFCI > receptacle.
theoretically, but in the case of a non-GFCI receptacle that is properly grounded, the mounting screws of the plate should ground th eplate as they thread into the yoke of the receptacle, so that would still trip the breaker
> Michael Press wrote: > > In article <hd2mi902...@news6.newsguy.com>, > > Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
> >> Michael Press wrote: > >>> In article <hd02gl01...@news3.newsguy.com>, > >>> Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
> >>>> can you use metal switch plates and receptacle covers on an ungrounded > >>>> circuit protected by a GFCI, or ONLY on a grounded circuit? > >>> What is GFCI? > >> Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter
> >> cuts power to the circuit if it detects an imbalance in current between > >> "hot" and "neutral," used in wet or potentially wet locations and also > >> to allow you to use grounded type receptacles where no ground wiring > >> exists (e.g. in a very old house)
> > The problem with a metal face plate where the box is > > not grounded is if a mechanical fault should form a > > conducting bridge between the box and the high side or > > load neutral. Then a person touching the face plate can > > form a short circuit to ground. If the receptacle is a > > GFCI receptacle then people are protected from this > > eventuation. Hence the metal face plate is a greater > > risk on a non-GFCI protected receptacle than on a GFCI > > receptacle.
> theoretically, but in the case of a non-GFCI receptacle that is properly > grounded, the mounting screws of the plate should ground th eplate as > they thread into the yoke of the receptacle, so that would still trip > the breaker
The safest setup is to run your earthline to the faceplate and a tail from the faceplate to the wall box. We dont rely on mounting screws to maintain earthing. When decorating, we lift the faceplate with the power still on, and general domestic lighting circuits still dont use rcds unless you have a dedicated emergency lighting circuit.
> Michael Press wrote: > > In article <hd2mi902...@news6.newsguy.com>, > > Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
> >> Michael Press wrote: > >>> In article <hd02gl01...@news3.newsguy.com>, > >>> Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
> >>>> can you use metal switch plates and receptacle covers on an ungrounded > >>>> circuit protected by a GFCI, or ONLY on a grounded circuit? > >>> What is GFCI? > >> Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter
> >> cuts power to the circuit if it detects an imbalance in current between > >> "hot" and "neutral," used in wet or potentially wet locations and also > >> to allow you to use grounded type receptacles where no ground wiring > >> exists (e.g. in a very old house)
> > The problem with a metal face plate where the box is > > not grounded is if a mechanical fault should form a > > conducting bridge between the box and the high side or > > load neutral. Then a person touching the face plate can > > form a short circuit to ground. If the receptacle is a > > GFCI receptacle then people are protected from this > > eventuation. Hence the metal face plate is a greater > > risk on a non-GFCI protected receptacle than on a GFCI > > receptacle.
> theoretically, but in the case of a non-GFCI receptacle that is properly > grounded,
Did you miss the part where I said the configuration that I discussed was _not_ grounded.
> the mounting screws of the plate should ground th eplate as > they thread into the yoke of the receptacle, so that would still trip > the breaker
Michael Press wrote: > In article <hd3ov80...@news6.newsguy.com>, > Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
>> Michael Press wrote: >>> In article <hd2mi902...@news6.newsguy.com>, >>> Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
>>>> Michael Press wrote: >>>>> In article <hd02gl01...@news3.newsguy.com>, >>>>> Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
>>>>>> can you use metal switch plates and receptacle covers on an ungrounded >>>>>> circuit protected by a GFCI, or ONLY on a grounded circuit? >>>>> What is GFCI? >>>> Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter
>>>> cuts power to the circuit if it detects an imbalance in current between >>>> "hot" and "neutral," used in wet or potentially wet locations and also >>>> to allow you to use grounded type receptacles where no ground wiring >>>> exists (e.g. in a very old house) >>> The problem with a metal face plate where the box is >>> not grounded is if a mechanical fault should form a >>> conducting bridge between the box and the high side or >>> load neutral. Then a person touching the face plate can >>> form a short circuit to ground. If the receptacle is a >>> GFCI receptacle then people are protected from this >>> eventuation. Hence the metal face plate is a greater >>> risk on a non-GFCI protected receptacle than on a GFCI >>> receptacle.
>> theoretically, but in the case of a non-GFCI receptacle that is properly >> grounded,
> Did you miss the part where I said the configuration > that I discussed was _not_ grounded.
No, I didn't miss it, I was just explaining why grounding as is now standard practice would be just as safe if not safer than not grounded but GFCI-protected.
Eventually I would like to ground all boxes in this house, but that will have to wait for repainting I fear as I don't see how to accomplish it without some amount of damage to the walls.
nate
(you guys will respond to anything, no matter how off topic, won't you <G>)
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