I need a (probably made up) word akin to "theophany".
A theophany (from the dictionary) is "An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation."
I want (at least) two other words, which are different: one meaning the appearance of a titan (in ancient Greek mythology, the titans were, loosely speaking, the cousins and uncles/aunts of the gods).
When Prometheus stole fire from the gods, and gave it to humans, that would have been an instance of this word: an appearance of a titan to mortals, but I want to distinguish it from the appearance of a "true" god. I'm not sure about the genetics of gods, but clearly titans and gods were the same species ;-p
Since I also want to mix in nordic (and other mythologies) this word, or a different one, should be good for giants in nordic mythology. Again, loosely speaking, they are the equivalent of greek titans. (Both gods and giants are more human-scale in nordic mythology than gods and titans in greek. Or perhaps nordic heroes were more god-scale <g>.)
The other word, or words, I want would relate more to christian/moslem mythoi. I want the corresponding word for a devil, or demon. And possibly a djinni or a fairy.
IOW, I want words that make these sound more like strange and rare events. I don't need a word for the appearance of your next door neighbour in his front yard...
Hmm. Perhaps a catch-all word, for any kind of supernatural apparition could be useful too.
Obviously I can substitute ordinary words (like appearance, and manifestation) but I want words that have more of the feel of the word "theophany": the sort of word learned professors and other gentlemen in a steam-punk setting might use at a gentleman's club, or a modern scientist might use in a scientific paper in a parallel world where such things occurred often enough that nobody with half a brain cell could doubt their reality, but seldom enough that someone with a whole brain cell could wonder if they were really supernatural, or "merely" some kind of natural phenomenon.
"Are djinn supernatural or the result of a parallel biogenesis?" one scientist might ask. And another respond, "It's a distinction without a difference." To which a third would say, "Poppycock!" ;-)
>I need a (probably made up) word akin to "theophany".
>A theophany (from the dictionary) is "An appearance of a god to a human; >a divine manifestation."
>I want (at least) two other words, which are different: one meaning the >appearance of a titan (in ancient Greek mythology, the titans were, >loosely speaking, the cousins and uncles/aunts of the gods).
>When Prometheus stole fire from the gods, and gave it to humans, that >would have been an instance of this word: an appearance of a titan to >mortals, but I want to distinguish it from the appearance of a "true" >god. I'm not sure about the genetics of gods, but clearly titans and >gods were the same species ;-p
>Since I also want to mix in nordic (and other mythologies) this word, or >a different one, should be good for giants in nordic mythology. Again, >loosely speaking, they are the equivalent of greek titans. (Both gods >and giants are more human-scale in nordic mythology than gods and titans >in greek. Or perhaps nordic heroes were more god-scale <g>.)
>The other word, or words, I want would relate more to christian/moslem >mythoi. I want the corresponding word for a devil, or demon. And >possibly a djinni or a fairy.
>IOW, I want words that make these sound more like strange and rare >events. I don't need a word for the appearance of your next door >neighbour in his front yard...
>Hmm. Perhaps a catch-all word, for any kind of supernatural apparition >could be useful too.
>Obviously I can substitute ordinary words (like appearance, and >manifestation) but I want words that have more of the feel of the word >"theophany": the sort of word learned professors and other gentlemen in >a steam-punk setting might use at a gentleman's club, or a modern >scientist might use in a scientific paper in a parallel world where such >things occurred often enough that nobody with half a brain cell could >doubt their reality, but seldom enough that someone with a whole brain >cell could wonder if they were really supernatural, or "merely" some >kind of natural phenomenon.
>"Are djinn supernatural or the result of a parallel biogenesis?" one >scientist might ask. And another respond, "It's a distinction without a >difference." To which a third would say, "Poppycock!" ;-)
>Jonathan
You've explained your needs into a state of utter confusion.
Are you looking for words that describe the appearance of something that exists but is not deific, as opposed to something actually deific?
Wish I could help, but I'd need to understand what you're looking for first.
Jonathan L Cunningham wrote: > I need a (probably made up) word akin to "theophany".
> A theophany (from the dictionary) is "An appearance of a god to a human; > a divine manifestation."
Okay...
> I want (at least) two other words, which are different: one meaning the > appearance of a titan (in ancient Greek mythology, the titans were, > loosely speaking, the cousins and uncles/aunts of the gods).
They were gods. The EARLIER gods. If a Titan like Prometheus appeared to you, that's theophany. You could, I suppose, call it Titanophany.
> Since I also want to mix in nordic (and other mythologies) this word, or > a different one, should be good for giants in nordic mythology. Again, > loosely speaking, they are the equivalent of greek titans. (Both gods > and giants are more human-scale in nordic mythology than gods and titans > in greek. Or perhaps nordic heroes were more god-scale <g>.)
And again, the greatest ones ARE gods, just not gods in charge of everything; if you're big enough and badass enough so that the prophecies say you'll kill the gods, you're a god. See "Gozer" for more on this topic. If you insist on a separate word, you could REALLY mangle things and make it a Jotunophany.
> The other word, or words, I want would relate more to christian/moslem > mythoi. I want the corresponding word for a devil, or demon. And > possibly a djinni or a fairy.
diabophany? Faeophany?
I think I'd just say "appearance" or "manifestation" and leave it at that. Why do you NEED these words? Is there a profession in your story that conducts classification studies on supernatural manifestations and wants to sort them out?
In article <4aeae98e.1325...@news.btconnect.com>, s...@sofluc.co.uk.invalid says...
> I need a (probably made up) word akin to "theophany".
> A theophany (from the dictionary) is "An appearance of a god to a human; > a divine manifestation."
> I want (at least) two other words, which are different: one meaning the > appearance of a titan (in ancient Greek mythology, the titans were, > loosely speaking, the cousins and uncles/aunts of the gods).
[--]
> Obviously I can substitute ordinary words (like appearance, and > manifestation) but I want words that have more of the feel of the word > "theophany": the sort of word learned professors and other gentlemen in > a steam-punk setting might use at a gentleman's club, or a modern > scientist might use in a scientific paper in a parallel world where such > things occurred often enough that nobody with half a brain cell could > doubt their reality, but seldom enough that someone with a whole brain > cell could wonder if they were really supernatural, or "merely" some > kind of natural phenomenon.
> "Are djinn supernatural or the result of a parallel biogenesis?" one > scientist might ask. And another respond, "It's a distinction without a > difference." To which a third would say, "Poppycock!" ;-)
'Manifestation' works for me... indeed, I like it better than 'theophany' which is a word that up until now I would not have been able to define, though I'd probably grok the meaning well enough from context.
If you are looking for scientific jargon, perhaps you could have your scientist categorise suitable events into theophanies or manifestations of Type 1, Type 2, Type 3, etc.?
Jonathan L Cunningham (s...@sofluc.co.uk.invalid) writes:
> I need a (probably made up) word akin to "theophany".
> A theophany (from the dictionary) is "An appearance of a god to a human; > a divine manifestation."
> I want (at least) two other words, which are different: one meaning the > appearance of a titan (in ancient Greek mythology, the titans were, > loosely speaking, the cousins and uncles/aunts of the gods). > [...]
I take it "epiphany" comes with too much baggage.
Have you considered the German "Erscheinung" or the Greek "eidolon" (both of which seem to mean "apparition" or "manifestation")? The former might morph into something like "godshine" in English, or be retained in its original form as a technical term.
> Hmm. Perhaps a catch-all word, for any kind of supernatural apparition > could be useful too.
> Obviously I can substitute ordinary words (like appearance, and > manifestation) but I want words that have more of the feel of the word > "theophany": the sort of word learned professors and other gentlemen in > a steam-punk setting might use at a gentleman's club, or a modern > scientist might use in a scientific paper in a parallel world where such > things occurred often enough that nobody with half a brain cell could > doubt their reality, but seldom enough that someone with a whole brain > cell could wonder if they were really supernatural, or "merely" some > kind of natural phenomenon.
> "Are djinn supernatural or the result of a parallel biogenesis?" one > scientist might ask. And another respond, "It's a distinction without a > difference." To which a third would say, "Poppycock!" ;-)
I'm sure the spiritualists and other psychical researchers of c. 1900 had quite a few good words to choose from. See also Robt. Browning, Wm. James.
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:17:34 -0000, Gerry Quinn wrote:
/snip/
> 'Manifestation' works for me... indeed, I like it better than > 'theophany' which is a word that up until now I would not have been > able to define, though I'd probably grok the meaning well enough from > context.
Theophany sounds awfully like something in classical music. Some sort of climax where the drums and cymbals would come in, but reverently.
> Jonathan L Cunningham (s...@sofluc.co.uk.invalid) writes: >> I need a (probably made up) word akin to "theophany". >> A theophany (from the dictionary) is "An appearance of a god to a human; >> a divine manifestation." >> I want (at least) two other words, which are different: one meaning the >> appearance of a titan (in ancient Greek mythology, the titans were, >> loosely speaking, the cousins and uncles/aunts of the gods). >> [...] > I take it "epiphany" comes with too much baggage.
Its main problem is that its most common current usage is quite different from its original sense of 'an appearance or manifestation of a divine or supernatural being': now it's most often used to mean either 'an illuminating discovery, realization, or disclosure' or 'an intuitive grasp of reality through something (as an event) usually simple and striking'.
> Have you considered the German "Erscheinung" or the Greek > "eidolon" (both of which seem to mean "apparition" or > "manifestation")?
<Erscheinung> doesn't strike me as a particularly good choice, as it has the same ambiguity as English <appearance> (and then some): 'act of manifesting', 'guise', and 'phenomenon' are all possible senses. <Eidolon> isn't quite right, either: as an English word it's 'an unsubstantial image, spectre, phantom'. (As usual, it also turns out to be the name of a band. Not as usual, it's the name of a genus of fruit bats.)
Just for fun, there's an Old English <ypping> 'a manifestation, a making known', found in early Middle English in the Ancrene Riwle as <uppinge>. That's a southern source, so the word would most likely have been <ipping> in late 14th century London speech, had it survived that long. (Then again, if its historical connection with the adverb <up> was remembered, it the southwestern spelling <upping> might have survived.)
>> 'Manifestation' works for me... indeed, I like it better than >> 'theophany' which is a word that up until now I would not have been >> able to define, though I'd probably grok the meaning well enough from >> context.
>Theophany sounds awfully like something in classical music. Some sort of >climax where the drums and cymbals would come in, but reverently.
>R.L.
"hallucination" can be quite a useful word, as can "perception".
> >> 'Manifestation' works for me... indeed, I like it better than > >> 'theophany' which is a word that up until now I would not have been > >> able to define, though I'd probably grok the meaning well enough from > >> context.
> >Theophany sounds awfully like something in classical music. Some sort of > >climax where the drums and cymbals would come in, but reverently.
> >R.L.
> "hallucination" can be quite a useful word, as can "perception".
bozo <Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote: >On Oct 30, 1:34 pm, Eric Ammadon <n...@spam.thankee> wrote: >> "R.L." <see-...@no-spams.coms> wrote: >> >On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:17:34 -0000, Gerry Quinn wrote: >> >/snip/
>> >> 'Manifestation' works for me... indeed, I like it better than >> >> 'theophany' which is a word that up until now I would not have been >> >> able to define, though I'd probably grok the meaning well enough from >> >> context.
>> >Theophany sounds awfully like something in classical music. Some sort of >> >climax where the drums and cymbals would come in, but reverently.
>> >R.L.
>> "hallucination" can be quite a useful word, as can "perception".
>> -- >> arggh, is it priate day again?
>how about doohickey or shazam?
Could be. I'm guessing he wants talk about,
real-appearances-of-fake-gods, real-appearances-of-real-gods, and maybe real-appearances-of-a-real-God,
but he might also want to talk about fake-appearances-of-whatever, or real demi-gods, or maybe even doohickeys.
For a "writer" it doesn't seem to me that he's been very clear on just what he's asking for help with.
It would seem to me that if he wants specific words, he'd need a set of multi-part words where one root describes the realness of the appearance and another root describes the godness of it... as a poor example, maybe "demilucent" would be a hallucinatory appearance of a demigod, "demolucent" would be a hallucinatory appearance of a demon, "godletance" would be an actual instance of a godlet or whatever, and no doubt he'd want to use impressive Greek or Latin or maybe Lituanian root words to give it some shiny.
I think he's mostly jerkin' his gherkin and doesn't need a bunch of specially invented words to describe such happenings. The English language has plenty of words already, and amazingly enough they can be combined into sequences that intimate new meanings, without the need for inventing new words with esoteric spellings. Go figure, if he ever completes anything instead of just flapping his gob about it and going on to something else he can get attention for being incapable of doing, I'll be very surprised.
On 30 Oct 2009 19:02:06 GMT, af...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Park) wrote:
>Jonathan L Cunningham (s...@sofluc.co.uk.invalid) writes: >> I need a (probably made up) word akin to "theophany".
>> A theophany (from the dictionary) is "An appearance of a god to a human; >> a divine manifestation."
>> I want (at least) two other words, which are different: one meaning the >> appearance of a titan (in ancient Greek mythology, the titans were, >> loosely speaking, the cousins and uncles/aunts of the gods). >> [...]
>I take it "epiphany" comes with too much baggage.
Yes. I looked up epiphany, and it comes with too much baggage! ;-)
Thanks, everyone for all the other suggestions, and non-suggestions, and suggestions it was a bad idea. I already explained why I don't want to use "manifestation"... but I guess I'll have to, some of the time. And apparition.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the working title of this year's Nanowrimo novel is "Theophanies and other embarrassments". I decided it was going to be urban fantasy, set in the year 2009, in my home town, rather than high fantasy, so there probably won't be any titans anyway. People would have noticed a titan.
Given the locals around here, Creatures of the Night, undead, fey etc. would pass unnoticed. Last Saturday, for Halloween, we had a march of zombies, from the central station to the beach, followed by a record-breaking number of people (well over 1500, including zombies) "doing the time warp". (If you don't know, don't ask.)
>On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:50:38 GMT, Jonathan L Cunningham wrote: >/snip/
>> Hmm. Perhaps a catch-all word, for any kind of supernatural apparition >> could be useful too.
>> Obviously I can substitute ordinary words (like appearance, and >> manifestation) but I want words that have more of the feel of the word >> "theophany": the sort of word learned professors and other gentlemen in >> a steam-punk setting might use at a gentleman's club, or a modern >> scientist might use in a scientific paper in a parallel world where such >> things occurred often enough that nobody with half a brain cell could >> doubt their reality, but seldom enough that someone with a whole brain >> cell could wonder if they were really supernatural, or "merely" some >> kind of natural phenomenon.
>> "Are djinn supernatural or the result of a parallel biogenesis?" one >> scientist might ask. And another respond, "It's a distinction without a >> difference." To which a third would say, "Poppycock!" ;-)
>I'm sure the spiritualists and other psychical researchers of c. 1900 had >quite a few good words to choose from. See also Robt. Browning, Wm. James.
But weren't spiritualists all supposed to be able to conjure apparitions on demand? That's the opposite of what I wanted: I need a word that evokes rare and strange, not routine and normal.
Possibly psychical researchers might have invented some suitable words, but not those investigating spiritaulists: ghosts and other hauntings, perhaps. But again, if a place is haunted, it suggests the ghost manifests regularly.
Anyway, I'm embroiled in, and behind on, this years Nanonovel (and I have a cold), so I don't have time to seek the right word! That can wait until December. ;-)
> On 30 Oct 2009 19:02:06 GMT, af...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Park) > wrote:
>>Jonathan L Cunningham (s...@sofluc.co.uk.invalid) writes: >>> I need a (probably made up) word akin to "theophany".
>>> A theophany (from the dictionary) is "An appearance of a god to a human; >>> a divine manifestation."
>>> I want (at least) two other words, which are different: one meaning the >>> appearance of a titan (in ancient Greek mythology, the titans were, >>> loosely speaking, the cousins and uncles/aunts of the gods). >>> [...]
>>I take it "epiphany" comes with too much baggage.
> Yes. I looked up epiphany, and it comes with too much baggage! ;-)
> Thanks, everyone for all the other suggestions, and non-suggestions, and > suggestions it was a bad idea. I already explained why I don't want to > use "manifestation"... but I guess I'll have to, some of the time. And > apparition.
> Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the working title of this year's Nanowrimo > novel is "Theophanies and other embarrassments". I decided it was going > to be urban fantasy, set in the year 2009, in my home town, rather than > high fantasy, so there probably won't be any titans anyway. People would > have noticed a titan.
> Given the locals around here, Creatures of the Night, undead, fey etc. > would pass unnoticed. Last Saturday, for Halloween, we had a march of > zombies, from the central station to the beach, followed by a > record-breaking number of people (well over 1500, including zombies) > "doing the time warp".
> On 30 Oct 2009 19:02:06 GMT, af...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Park) > wrote:
>>Jonathan L Cunningham (s...@sofluc.co.uk.invalid) writes: >>> I need a (probably made up) word akin to "theophany".
>>> A theophany (from the dictionary) is "An appearance of a god to a human; >>> a divine manifestation."
>>> I want (at least) two other words, which are different: one meaning the >>> appearance of a titan (in ancient Greek mythology, the titans were, >>> loosely speaking, the cousins and uncles/aunts of the gods). >>> [...]
>>I take it "epiphany" comes with too much baggage.
> Yes. I looked up epiphany, and it comes with too much baggage! ;-)
> Thanks, everyone for all the other suggestions, and non-suggestions, and > suggestions it was a bad idea. I already explained why I don't want to > use "manifestation"... but I guess I'll have to, some of the time. And > apparition.
> Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the working title of this year's Nanowrimo > novel is "Theophanies and other embarrassments". I decided it was going > to be urban fantasy, set in the year 2009, in my home town, rather than > high fantasy, so there probably won't be any titans anyway. People would > have noticed a titan.
> Given the locals around here, Creatures of the Night, undead, fey etc. > would pass unnoticed. Last Saturday, for Halloween, we had a march of > zombies, from the central station to the beach, followed by a > record-breaking number of people (well over 1500, including zombies) > "doing the time warp".
Oh, crap. I didn't intend to send that. What I was going to say, though, is in most of the neighborhoods I've lived in no one would notice either. All heights, styles of clothing, colors, etc., etc..
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