Qilang Google Group

typechecking

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Mon, 11 Nov 2009 23:22:35 UT

I've stalled a little in the development. The crucial thing is that I
cannot spend more then
about one hour per day and this thing needs to be though through, so
what is the thing.

To let all code that goes through (tc -) to go through with a weak
type-checking on one need to let types be of an undecidable form, but

Shen

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Sun, 11 Nov 2009 17:29:01 UT

Hi,

It was suggested that Shen should be relocated to google code due to
license issues e.g.
QiII not seen as an open license and hence not possible to keep at
giithub, I let BoopCore
still be located at github, because I will dual license that code
because there are people who would work only in QiII and others who

resolving support and internet connection

dr.mtar...@ukonline.co.uk (Mark Tarver) — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:00:34 UT

Just to warn that Lambda Associates may be offline for a temporary
period from next week as I sort out service problems from India. *
This is not a major permanent shutdown * and may not even occur, but
I'm simply warning people that this might happen because resolving
this stuff is more difficult from India.

test-reader.qi

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Thu, 11 Nov 2009 23:16:45 UT

I've now been running same tests and made a couple of examples where
the focus have been in the Yacc part and the segment part of the code
as well as a General Streaming method.

as an example I did a parser for a toy lang. and then created a
modified list stream that
added the capabilities to let the line column and depth be kept in

einstein riddle

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 21:27:54 UT

Hi,

I've been busy coding for some time. I now have a working basic
framework. This framework can be used to combine backtracking and
unifications to builed prolog like features. E.g. in my view a natural
building block to spark Shen from.

The last couple of week's I've been focusing in understanding how to

Qi on Clozure CL

nitral...@googlemail.com (Nik) — Fri, 10 Oct 2009 10:08:49 UT

Hi folks,

Does somebody work on porting Qi to Clozure CL?

Regards
Nik

Productivity vs Mod Queues

danieljom...@gmail.com (Daniel Jomphe) — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 01:02:34 UT

This message is for the moderator, not for Qilang. So I suggest you
delete it after you've read it.

I find it very counter-productive that I have to wait hours (or days?)
before my questions may even be modded-published to the list. And
then, I shall wait hours (or days?) before any answer reaches me. In

Need more eyes on two small Qi-YACC parsers

danieljom...@gmail.com (Daniel Jomphe) — Tue, 09 Sep 2009 19:16:49 UT

=== 1 ===
What's wrong with my parser?

(defcc <rule>
<sn> <sym>;)

(defcc <sym>
symbol;)

(defcc <sn>
-*- := (if (number? -*-)
[-*-]
(error "~A is not a number" -*-)))

(compile <rule> [[1] symbol])
error: [1] is not a number

Isn't -*- supposed to be the head of [1], thus 1? And, consequently:

Qi + slime + emacs = love

jrw...@gmail.com (jrwats) — Tue, 09 Sep 2009 16:19:26 UT

I finally got slime + emacs working for Qi. If you're not familiar
with slime it eases common lisp development a lot IMHO.

with SBCL running I ran the following:
(require 'swank)
(load "install.lsp")

now the Qi.core has swank loaded and ready to go. In my ~/.emacs I
made:

(defun qi-init-cmd (port-filename coding-system)

restoring direction to qilang

dr.mtar...@ukonline.co.uk (Mark Tarver) — Tue, 09 Sep 2009 12:58:21 UT

This is a quite important message and concerns the future of qilang,
Qi, Shen and a lot of what has been going on in the last two weeks.
It was going to be a post; but was too long. You can read what I have
to say here. It is about restoring the direction of this group and
Lambda Associates.

Qi question on StackOverflow

danieljom...@gmail.com (Daniel Jomphe) — Fri, 09 Sep 2009 19:34:45 UT

I've just asked my first Qi programming question on StackOverflow. I
don't see why such kind of questions should be answered on any mailing
list when there's much better services out there for Q&A purposes.
Although my question is more Qi-YACC-related than Qi-related, it's
still the first question tagged "Qi" on the site.

lisp-form.qi

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 20:46:12 UT

I added the code for translating to clojure in the repo in the file
lisp-form.qi

It's in a mess, just wanted to show that I have done some serious work
in trying to translate to
clojure. I don't like the state of it so in the end It needs to be
rewritten, also the implications of
the unified code in core.qi. and associated files has not yielded

Shen on github

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Mon, 08 Aug 2009 14:32:48 UT

I have created a repo on github called shen,

[link]

For anybody wanting to help developing, email me a message.

I will use this standard, people who post code and fixes on the forum
can gain a trust
with me. When you feel comfortable please ask me about getting an

shen-core-0.qi

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Sun, 08 Aug 2009 21:13:39 UT

I just uploaded a file the is a snapshot of where I am today,
I will now stop at adding features to the reduce functionality and
instead
start the compilation to shen code

/Stefan

some suggestions for Shen

dr.mtar...@ukonline.co.uk (Mark Tarver) — Thu, 08 Aug 2009 07:49:34 UT

1. Programmable pattern-matching
______________________________ ___

As Stefan has pointed out reduce-help is the key to programmable
pattern-matching. You need a facility something like this.

(pattern :recognisor cons?
:constructor cons
:selectors [head tail])

This declaration needs to be guaranteed type secure. Assuming that

core.qi

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Wed, 08 Aug 2009 21:45:47 UT

Hi,

This is a description of what I reasoned out of core.qi.

1. There should be a unifying notion of a define and a define lambda
that unifies
streaming unification matching parsing segmenting. The core function
is reduce-help
and it's here I'm working on getting all these components together,

FUNCTION-LAMBDA-EXPRESSION

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Sun, 08 Aug 2009 20:29:44 UT

What is this doing?

(DEFUN goalstack (V681 Continuation)
(BLOCK failure
(PROG2 (+infs)
(bind V681 (FUNCTION-LAMBDA-EXPRESSION Continuation)
#'(LAMBDA NIL (FUNCALL Continuation))))))

Anyway I've gone through
prolog.qi -> this was not easy

boundp

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Thu, 08 Aug 2009 21:25:43 UT

I'm trying to get an equivalent to BOUNDP in clojure.
This one is not easy. The reason is that symbols is
translated to a binding via a map and to check for bounded
symbols you need to do a map lookup, which is an expensive
operation. Now for lisp, probably symbols keep their value on the
symbol

quote question

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Wed, 08 Aug 2009 20:12:16 UT

Hi, In Qi II

(let X 1 'X)

(let X 1 'Y)

I was wondering what speaks against using the rule that a quoting is a
quoting e.g.

(let X 1 'X)

(let X 1 ''X=

(let X 1 Y)
(let X 1 'Y)
(let X 1 ''Y)

/Stefan

recur statement

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Tue, 08 Aug 2009 19:38:30 UT

Hi, I want to make use of clojure recur statement, and wan't to be
able to use it for python as well.

Why not introduce such an element in Qi? In order to use this a need
to verify tail call property
in order to be able to model a recur statement on-top of loops.

So this is the code I plan to use note (recur Name Var Val Code) is

IF statements

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Mon, 08 Aug 2009 21:06:58 UT

IF statements is simpler to translate from qi to the target lang
then from the generated lisps. The question is what
modifications need to be done for QI-YACC and QI-PROLOG
lisp generators.

/Stefan

multidimensional arrays

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Mon, 08 Aug 2009 20:41:42 UT

it looks like multidimensional arrays is missing from the clojure
spec, we should be able to model
this ontop of vectors.

setting and getting array elements need to be modeled

/Stefan

No Escape character on clojure?

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Mon, 08 Aug 2009 20:35:22 UT

It looks like the Escape character is not present in clojure
/Stefan

RETURN-FROM BLOCK

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Mon, 08 Aug 2009 19:50:07 UT

block and return from is heavily used in prolog and yacc generated
lisps.
The basic usage seams to be to exit the function with NIL. E.g. a
return
statement similar to c code return statement.

So Is this true or are there more complex usages of the BLOCK item?

Not sure how to do this with clojure though

sequence pattern matching

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 22:26:16 UT

Discussion of how to do pattern matching in arrays, strings and so on
follow here

/Stefan

implementing property list and hash tables

dr.mtar...@ukonline.co.uk (Mark Tarver) — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 08:59:15 UT

Stefan,

You asked about hash tables and property lists....

I'm following the practice of putting different aspects of porting
under different threads otherwise we'll get a huge thread.

Hash tables are used twice in Qi. First, to hold the signatures of
functions (as closures) and second to hold the arity of functions. So

porting to non-tco languages?

rao...@gmail.com (Raoul Duke) — Fri, 08 Aug 2009 21:26:32 UT

hi,
assuming that recursion is an important feature, and thus that tail
call optimization (not just in the same routine, but across routines
as well) is important, how is porting of Qi done towards systems which
do not support TCO? trampolining? does it eschew interop with the
underlying system then (Python, Java, whatever)?

Shen

dr.mtar...@ukonline.co.uk (Mark Tarver) — Fri, 08 Aug 2009 18:10:47 UT

As a preamble, two things for Stefan.

If you continue on the path that I sketched in 'The Next Lisp' then
you will evolve a language that extends Qi beyond the standard in FPQi
and will unify the tongues of Lisp. I called this language 'Shen' in
the essay. I would like to use this name.

There is a logic to this. In Chinese alchemy, jing-qi-shen is a

anybody used stella?

rao...@gmail.com (Raoul Duke) — Tue, 08 Aug 2009 23:03:47 UT

[link]
not that it is super akin to qi, though it sits atop lisp, hence maybe
somebody here would know about it.

tangential question: auto-boxing

rao...@gmail.com (Raoul Duke) — Tue, 08 Aug 2009 22:57:55 UT

do CL implementations do auto-boxing? it seems to be something of a
sore point wrt performance in the land of jvm-based languages (Java,
Clojure, Scala). just wondering if Qi can/does provide clean ways to
stay performant. and then wondering what happens when Qi gets ported
to Clojure which is on the JVM.

re: porting qi

rao...@gmail.com (Raoul Duke) — Tue, 08 Aug 2009 20:48:27 UT

i'm one of the folks who probably won't help (no time) but who very
much appreciates / looks forward to the porting efforts. so thanks to
folks e.g. snorgers working on it!

View this page: "Qi Core and ports"

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Mon, 08 Aug 2009 12:16:50 UT

Ok, I tried to classify the keywords and put down some notes. Lets
start enter our thoughts about this.

I (snorgers) will try to update the homepage to reflect our knowledge
about the
problem that is entered in this thread.

/Stefan

Click on [link]

What is the "Kernel of Qi"?

pgwo...@gmail.com (Greg Wolff) — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 15:58:10 UT

In his good-bye post Mark makes a suggestion that Qi should be carried
forward by distilling it's kernel and implementing that kernel in
other languages. If possible, before Mark disappears it would be nice
to discuss what the "kernel of Qi" is and how it might be implemented
on a language platform other than CL, which appears to be dying.

saying goodbye

dr.mtar...@ukonline.co.uk (Mark Tarver) — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 07:49:09 UT

In a month I will be packing to go to India; this time for an extended
period. But its also a goodbye to Qi and computing. At some point
you have to acknowledge that Qi doesn't pay its way. It was fun
though and I'm not sad about it.

Qi has been a journey that began nearly 20 years ago when I was a very

View this page: "Snorgers Code"

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Fri, 07 July 2009 22:03:23 UT

Here are my code contributions to the qi community collected on one
page.

For any comments, post it in this thread.

Also, note that if you just paste in html code into google pages it
will crash.
You need to go in and change the page artificially afterwords and then
save it.
Probably, because I pasted html previously the pages was deleted!!

an example of alternative education

davidleoni...@gmail.com (David Leoni) — Fri, 07 July 2009 07:49:10 UT

After reading the mission statements about what Mark Tarver is trying to do
at [link] the book
[link] came to my mind: it
describes the problems that (real existing) Massachussets School of Law had
to do to face to provide affordable and quality education, having against

fun with sfun

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Mon, 07 July 2009 21:44:16 UT

Hi,

As an example of the latest sfun features I have been playing with the
code presented below.
It is always a good exersice to eat the dogfood to find buggs and
improve on the tool.
And I must say that I come to like the sfun utility alot.

Note, in order to use the sfun, you should download the macro package,

Zephyr v2.5 with Advanced Test Management Capabilities

sean.s...@gmail.com (sean) — Wed, 07 July 2009 05:10:42 UT

Hello Everyone,

Zephyr has created a name for itself in software testing arena with
its revolutionary test management system. Now from them comes a more
advanced test management system, Zephyr v2.5 with advanced test
management capabilities. This advanced test management system aids in
comprehensive testing lifecycle management and provides real time

Type signature for a function without arguments

fernandor...@gmail.com (frd) — Mon, 07 July 2009 07:20:17 UT

Hi,
I don't know how to make the signature for a function without
arguments like this

(define main ->
(fibonacci 10))

Can anybody help me?
Thanks in advance

Home Computer Security

judithmorg...@gmail.com (Judith) — Sat, 07 July 2009 02:04:54 UT

This is a paper about securing your home computers and networks.

The goal of computer security is to keep unauthorized users from using
your resources. This can be anything from your computer to your
printer or even your web camera. Detection is another important aspect
that should be monitored as well.

match code simplification/optimization

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Wed, 07 July 2009 17:37:26 UT

Hi,

If the summer is slow, you could dive into the issue of constructing
an effective match construct.

e.g.

[link]

The idea is that code is a tree and various versions of the trees is
transformed by using of matching
construct where the argument is an explicit tree but of another

Segment function aka sfun and the old fun

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Sat, 07 July 2009 23:44:06 UT

Hi,

I have now compiled a package for lambdas that match like defines in
Qi.
To see this code in action see

[link]

Also Interestingly here is new experimental code that shows a segment
matching version of
a anonymous lambda. I think that this is a nifty functionality and It

extremely busy .....

dr.mtar...@ukonline.co.uk (Mark Tarver) — Sat, 07 July 2009 07:35:44 UT

I'm extremely busy so........

Unless its a bug I will not be fixing it. Do continue to research and
feel free to exchange ideas and post code.

best

Mark

simple operator package

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Wed, 07 July 2009 22:55:27 UT

This is a package with infix operators wit just one level of
precedency
It uses unicode math symbols to handle e.g. set operators. Also
chaining is implemented so that now (1 < 2 < 4) evaluates to true.
(this is a little dangerous because then the symbols < > will be
booked
and problems may appear if these are used in the programs apart from

load LOAD

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Wed, 07 July 2009 22:28:06 UT

Hi,

I have tried to package things in a PACKAGE and needed to evaluate
some lisp
forms with LOAD. The thing is that then my load forms call other load
forms and the
only way to evaluate everything is to start Qi in the same directory.

(cd ...) does not work because LOAD doesn't see this. Therefore as a

macro package

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Wed, 07 July 2009 11:08:15 UT

Hi Mark,

I have started to compile packages and here is my first try. I post
the links here
for you to put up on the home-page.

Short description:
This is a package of more lisp like defmacro utility.

you can use it as
(defmacro plus L -> [+|L])

For more info see the links

Any problems with the package or suggestion for improvements, please

1.07 is up

dr.mtar...@ukonline.co.uk (Mark Tarver) — Tue, 07 July 2009 19:35:19 UT

But I didn't have time to escape the ^ character. There is an oddity
here about CL behaviour but I don't have the time right now.

Mark

programmable escape and comment delimiters

dr.mtar...@ukonline.co.uk (Mark Tarver) — Mon, 07 July 2009 20:32:04 UT

C:\Documents and Settings\User\My Documents\Lambda Associates
2009\Download\QiII
1.07\Lisp>sbcl --noinform --core Qi.core

This is experimental prerelease support for the Windows platform: use
at your own risk. "Your Kitten of Death awaits!"

Pages dissapeared?

stefan.ta...@spray.se (snorgers) — Sun, 07 July 2009 11:00:52 UT

Hi,

I wanted to update some of the pages here on the forum and they seems
to have
disappeared all of them. Do any of you know what have happened. Shall
we avoid using
those?

Stefan

Using Qi as a scripting language: queries

dr.mtar...@ukonline.co.uk (Mark Tarver) — Fri, 07 July 2009 19:48:04 UT

I want to look at using Qi as a scripting language.

A. Does anybody have experience using Lisp as a scripting language;
CLisp esp.
B Has anybody got a copy of Red Hat Linux? You should have a copy of
CLisp on it.

Just a thought; anybody used Qi to do scripts?

Mark