Jambu: taking stock and next steps - Jambu

Message from discussion Jambu: taking stock and next steps
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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 18:21:54 +0100
From: "Simon Judge" <si.ju...@gmail.com>
To: jambu@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Jambu] Jambu: taking stock and next steps
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I think that is a very (much) clearer vision Steve. I think the potential
for browser-based / web-service AAC/AT is powerful and you have sensibly
separated these aspects.

Let me know if I can help.

Simon

On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 5:04 PM, Steve Lee <st...@fullmeasure.co.uk> wrote:

>
> Hi, well everything has been quiet since I completed the last phase so
> thanks for hanging in there and staying interested. I've had a bit of
> a break due to personal circumstances and perhaps slightly running out
> of steam. A big thanks to Eitan for all the nags during this time
> (your mentoring has been great).
>
> This is the time start thinking about the Roadmap and I would
> appreciate contributions. I'll try to keep this brief in the hope you
> stay with me and get inspired to have your say at this critical point.
>
> So where are we? Well no one seems quite clear on exactly what Jambu
> is and that was my fault for being too big and woolly at the start. I
> had big ideals but not so much focus. What we have at this time is:
>
> 1) Idealistic ideas about improving all Alt input access
> 2) In application selection and operation of accessible GTK apps and
> Firefox on Linux with simple switch access.
> 3) A GTK app or custom widget and framework that renders SVG UIs like
> OSKs described in declarative XML-based representation.
>
> So that is really 3 projects.
>
> 1) Is really a Meta project and I think too much to chew on at once.
> It covers basic input devices/drivers, desktop accessibility features
> like mousekeys/mousetweeks, a11y APIs, ATs, applications, DOM input,
> WCAG etc.
>
> Another consideration for alt input is that after seeing and using eye
> gaze, it seems that this should become the default alt access mode,
> with switch being used for those who don't get on with gaze. We need a
> FOSS version that works really well with cheap-o web cams and
> OpenGazer seems to be running in that direction. We can expect a
> period of inertia with users getting out of the switch mind set, but I
> think it will happen. So this encourages me to work in other areas.
>
> 2) Is unique and addresses those who want to use normal applications
> without intermediate OSKs (this may be a small user base as we're
> being speculative). It's rather cool and I think it should be
> developed more.  Intitial work will be ensuring it works with recent
> changes in FF3 and GAIL regressed a bit. Finding some users is
> paramount in my mind. It may have other non a11y uses as well for low
> bandwidth input situations.
>
> 3) my vision for Jambu has matured to be a tool for achieving
> communication and control with SVG symbols, simple custom OSKs and
> possibly multi-media.  This is important for both people with physical
> and learning difficulties (or both), all of who are currently under
> represented (note to self of a danger of getting too broad again). I
> have been seeing a lot of discussion about these needs in education
> and from Speech and Language therapists. I'm also working on a project
> that will be an open set of symbols and there is synergy there as well
> as a chance for more user contact. Several of the OATSoft team are
> highly experienced in this area which is high profile in the UK in my
> experience. There is also a semantic web based project called CCF from
> Dundee University that aims to make translation to/from symbols
> workable. So I see a need and have many contacts with people working
> in this area.
>
> There are several well established proprietary programs in this area
> as well as an overlap with OSKs so I'm keen to ensure we are not just
> a 'me too' OSS version but really innovate and enable participation. A
> key point is it should be easy to create new specific solutions or
> modify existing ones.  Rather like the way the Web provides free
> access to the source and anyone has easy entry to creating resources
> and solutions (however messily). We will need a user base for
> community and creating a library of custom shared resources.
>
> I'm seriously thinking how this should become a web based solution /
> service usable standalone or online or as part of another application.
> It seems clear that IT (and browsers) are moving in that direction
> anyway and even if it is a while off perhaps a local webserver would
> be easily installed for offline use. Another attractive possibility is
> to revisit XUL now it's status and my understanding have moved on. I
> won't go into all the thinking now but, really do want to thrash this
> idea out more.
>
> So if we drop 1) out of Jambu we still have to decide whether to split
> out 2 & 3 so each is clearly their own project. I think this is
> probably the way to go, perhaps making it clear they are siblings.
>
> Finally an exciting possibility is getting Project Possibility
> students involved and I'm keen to do that. I really need others
> working on it now and later phases and student energy can be awesome.
> There should be scope for subprojects in 1 such as porting SUNFlare
> gesture recognition or filling alt access gaps at the Desktop level.
> These will involve working with existing projects so offer good
> experience. 2 will be excellent for students who are happy to take a
> starting point and run with it. It gives you some python and AT-SPI in
> your portfolio. 3) will also offer lots of possibilities once it is
> more clearly defined, I see the possibility for several sub-projects.
>
> So my immediate next steps are
> * Create a proper website etc. so Jambu is easily approachable (honest
> I will Eitan)
> * Develop the Roadmap and then try to get funding
>
> Looking forward to any thoughts ideas.
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Steve Lee
> --
> Open Source Assistive Technology Software
> web: fullmeasure.co.uk
> blog: eduspaces.net/stevelee/weblog
>

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I think that is a very (much) clearer vision Steve. I think the potential for browser-based / web-service AAC/AT is powerful and you have sensibly separated these aspects.<br><br>Let me know if I can help.<br><br>Simon<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 5:04 PM, Steve Lee &lt;<a href="mailto:st...@fullmeasure.co.uk">st...@fullmeasure.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
Hi, well everything has been quiet since I completed the last phase so<br>
thanks for hanging in there and staying interested. I&#39;ve had a bit of<br>
a break due to personal circumstances and perhaps slightly running out<br>
of steam. A big thanks to Eitan for all the nags during this time<br>
(your mentoring has been great).<br>
<br>
This is the time start thinking about the Roadmap and I would<br>
appreciate contributions. I&#39;ll try to keep this brief in the hope you<br>
stay with me and get inspired to have your say at this critical point.<br>
<br>
So where are we? Well no one seems quite clear on exactly what Jambu<br>
is and that was my fault for being too big and woolly at the start. I<br>
had big ideals but not so much focus. What we have at this time is:<br>
<br>
1) Idealistic ideas about improving all Alt input access<br>
2) In application selection and operation of accessible GTK apps and<br>
Firefox on Linux with simple switch access.<br>
3) A GTK app or custom widget and framework that renders SVG UIs like<br>
OSKs described in declarative XML-based representation.<br>
<br>
So that is really 3 projects.<br>
<br>
1) Is really a Meta project and I think too much to chew on at once.<br>
It covers basic input devices/drivers, desktop accessibility features<br>
like mousekeys/mousetweeks, a11y APIs, ATs, applications, DOM input,<br>
WCAG etc.<br>
<br>
Another consideration for alt input is that after seeing and using eye<br>
gaze, it seems that this should become the default alt access mode,<br>
with switch being used for those who don&#39;t get on with gaze. We need a<br>
FOSS version that works really well with cheap-o web cams and<br>
OpenGazer seems to be running in that direction. We can expect a<br>
period of inertia with users getting out of the switch mind set, but I<br>
think it will happen. So this encourages me to work in other areas.<br>
<br>
2) Is unique and addresses those who want to use normal applications<br>
without intermediate OSKs (this may be a small user base as we&#39;re<br>
being speculative). It&#39;s rather cool and I think it should be<br>
developed more. &nbsp;Intitial work will be ensuring it works with recent<br>
changes in FF3 and GAIL regressed a bit. Finding some users is<br>
paramount in my mind. It may have other non a11y uses as well for low<br>
bandwidth input situations.<br>
<br>
3) my vision for Jambu has matured to be a tool for achieving<br>
communication and control with SVG symbols, simple custom OSKs and<br>
possibly multi-media. &nbsp;This is important for both people with physical<br>
and learning difficulties (or both), all of who are currently under<br>
represented (note to self of a danger of getting too broad again). I<br>
have been seeing a lot of discussion about these needs in education<br>
and from Speech and Language therapists. I&#39;m also working on a project<br>
that will be an open set of symbols and there is synergy there as well<br>
as a chance for more user contact. Several of the OATSoft team are<br>
highly experienced in this area which is high profile in the UK in my<br>
experience. There is also a semantic web based project called CCF from<br>
Dundee University that aims to make translation to/from symbols<br>
workable. So I see a need and have many contacts with people working<br>
in this area.<br>
<br>
There are several well established proprietary programs in this area<br>
as well as an overlap with OSKs so I&#39;m keen to ensure we are not just<br>
a &#39;me too&#39; OSS version but really innovate and enable participation. A<br>
key point is it should be easy to create new specific solutions or<br>
modify existing ones. &nbsp;Rather like the way the Web provides free<br>
access to the source and anyone has easy entry to creating resources<br>
and solutions (however messily). We will need a user base for<br>
community and creating a library of custom shared resources.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m seriously thinking how this should become a web based solution /<br>
service usable standalone or online or as part of another application.<br>
It seems clear that IT (and browsers) are moving in that direction<br>
anyway and even if it is a while off perhaps a local webserver would<br>
be easily installed for offline use. Another attractive possibility is<br>
to revisit XUL now it&#39;s status and my understanding have moved on. I<br>
won&#39;t go into all the thinking now but, really do want to thrash this<br>
idea out more.<br>
<br>
So if we drop 1) out of Jambu we still have to decide whether to split<br>
out 2 &amp; 3 so each is clearly their own project. I think this is<br>
probably the way to go, perhaps making it clear they are siblings.<br>
<br>
Finally an exciting possibility is getting Project Possibility<br>
students involved and I&#39;m keen to do that. I really need others<br>
working on it now and later phases and student energy can be awesome.<br>
There should be scope for subprojects in 1 such as porting SUNFlare<br>
gesture recognition or filling alt access gaps at the Desktop level.<br>
These will involve working with existing projects so offer good<br>
experience. 2 will be excellent for students who are happy to take a<br>
starting point and run with it. It gives you some python and AT-SPI in<br>
your portfolio. 3) will also offer lots of possibilities once it is<br>
more clearly defined, I see the possibility for several sub-projects.<br>
<br>
So my immediate next steps are<br>
* Create a proper website etc. so Jambu is easily approachable (honest<br>
I will Eitan)<br>
* Develop the Roadmap and then try to get funding<br>
<br>
Looking forward to any thoughts ideas.<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
<br>
--<br>
Steve Lee<br>
<font color="#888888">--<br>
Open Source Assistive Technology Software<br>
web: <a href="http://fullmeasure.co.uk" target="_blank">fullmeasure.co.uk</a><br>
blog: <a href="http://eduspaces.net/stevelee/weblog" target="_blank">eduspaces.net/stevelee/weblog</a><br>
</font></blockquote></div><br>

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