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John Cartmell  
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 More options 9 Apr, 18:17
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.misc
From: John Cartmell <j...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:17:27 +0100
Local: Wed 9 Apr 2008 18:17
Subject: Re: Castle What?
In article <4f8d64e461invalid-email-addr...@invalid-domain.co.uk>, Paul Vigay

<invalid-email-addr...@invalid-domain.co.uk> wrote:
> In a dim and distant universe <4f8d63f924j...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, John
> Cartmell <j...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> enlightened us thusly: [Snippety snip]
> Like I said

<advert snipped>

OK I understand. You wanted to advertise your point of view so attached it to
a posting about something else. Please don't repeat with another ad! ;-(

--
        John Cartmell   j...@finnybank.com     0845 006 8822 or 0161 969 9820
        Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527         www.qercus.com
        Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing


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Dave Symes  
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 More options 9 Apr, 19:14
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.misc
From: Dave Symes <d...@triffid.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 19:14:03 +0100
Local: Wed 9 Apr 2008 19:14
Subject: Re: Castle What?

[Snip the lot]

How quickly some people can degenarate a thread.  :-(

Less than 24 hours ago I asked a couple of serious questions, and now this
thread has degenerated into a snarling match about who done what/why and
to whom in the past.

We saw all the polarized garbage in the past discussions, until our eyes
and minds were weary of the subject.

I don't care who done what/why and to whom in the past, this SARPC is
getting very old (13) and occasionally has little fits, so I have to
wonder, where to next... I do have a Win Laptop with VRPC SA installed and
working... Yadayadayada!

Dave S

--


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David Holden  
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 More options 9 Apr, 19:42
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.misc
From: "David Holden" <Spam...@apdl.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 18:42:49 GMT
Local: Wed 9 Apr 2008 19:42
Subject: Re: Castle What?

On  9-Apr-2008, Paul Stewart <paulstew...@phawfaux.co.uk> wrote:

> "I heard a rumour" (song by Bananarama) about the legal spat that took
> place was due to Castle having a multi million pound buyer for RISC
> OS.  But it was lock stock and barrel.  This meant disposing of RISC
> OS Ltd.  Hence the legal letters that went around.  Which did not got
> rid RISC OS Ltd, just caused more hardship.

You only need the application of a very small amount of logic to realise
that can't be true. If there really was such an offer then all Castle had to
do to 'dispose of' RISCOS Ltd would be to purchase about 30% of the shares
and wind the company up. This would have required an investment of only a
small fraction of the 'multi million pound' offer.

It's analogous to someone receiving an extremely attractive offer for a
property with a sitting tenant. You just buy out the tenant (unless your
name is Rackman - in which case you try violence and intimidation).

--
David Holden  -  APDL  -  <http://www.apdl.co.uk>


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Aaron  
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 More options 9 Apr, 20:37
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.misc
From: Aaron <atimbr...@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:37:37 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed 9 Apr 2008 20:37
Subject: Re: Castle What?
On 9 Apr, 16:47, Rob Kendrick <n...@rjek.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 07:45:25 -0700, Aaron wrote:
> > It's only too overloaded because people like yourself and Paul Vigay use
> > the term "open source" instead of the correct term(s).

> And I'm sure you speak from a position of extensive experience and
> participation in open source and free software communities, having
> contributed hundreds of hours of your own time and thousands of lines of
> code to them.  Your CV must be positively over-flowing with examples of
> your organisation, efforts and management of such communities to be able
> to pontificate so authoritatively.

Actually I have spent hundreds of hours on "free" software and
contributed thousands of lines of code :-)

but not in the last few years:-(

Despite spending time doing this I still managed to read
the relevant documents. I also studied contract law and
licencing agreements as part of my degree. I also
learnt to read :-)

> Parts of CTL's RISC OS source code have been made available to anyone to
> view, fork and modify as they so wish.  They're just not free to do the
> things that free software typically allows.

Making something available does not make it open
source - simple fact.

> The confusion people have who are new to this kind of thing are the
> motivating factor for organisations like Debian having their own very
> carefully worded descriptions of free software (which incidentally, the
> ROOL licence fails miserably), and is a huge contributing factor to the
> FUD surrounding free and open source software.

Well you aren't new to this, so that doesn't explain
your confusion. The situation remains the same. Some
parts of the sources to RISC OS 5 are available under
a shared source, not open source.

Your Acorn User 1992 level comprehension doesn't alter
the facts one jot. You have freely admited in the past
that you don't read things, this appears to be yet another
case :-(

Aaron


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Tim Hill  
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 More options 9 Apr, 20:00
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.misc
From: Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk>
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 20:00:20 +0100
Local: Wed 9 Apr 2008 20:00
Subject: Re: Castle What?
[snipped]

In article <Ky5Lj.48077$5i5.7...@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, Rob Kendrick

<n...@rjek.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 07:45:25 -0700, Aaron wrote:
> > It's only too overloaded because people like yourself and Paul Vigay
> > use the term "open source" instead of the correct term(s).

No need for 'term(s)', it's 'terms'.

> Parts of CTL's RISC OS source code have been made available to anyone
> to view, fork and modify as they so wish.  They're just not free to do
> the things that free software typically allows.

Don't argue, just read this, or suggest other people read it if you have.

http://www.riscosopen.org/content/documents/licences

There is no one simple category which all the various bits of code can be
placed.

--
Want better than BT? www.timil.com/usenet.php
Want a genuine but spam-proof address for Usenet? Visit www.invalid.org.uk
The originating email address of this message is invalid: www.timil.com/ask.php

... "Incapable of more, replete with you" Sonnet 113


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Dr Peter Young  
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 More options 9 Apr, 21:11
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.misc
From: Dr Peter Young <pnyo...@ormail.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 21:11:24 +0100
Local: Wed 9 Apr 2008 21:11
Subject: Re: Castle What?
On 9 Apr 2008  Dave Symes <d...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

> [Snip the lot]
> How quickly some people can degenarate a thread.  :-(
> Less than 24 hours ago I asked a couple of serious questions, and now this
> thread has degenerated into a snarling match about who done what/why and
> to whom in the past.
> We saw all the polarized garbage in the past discussions, until our eyes
> and minds were weary of the subject.
> I don't care who done what/why and to whom in the past, this SARPC is
> getting very old (13) and occasionally has little fits, so I have to
> wonder, where to next... I do have a Win Laptop with VRPC SA installed and
> working... Yadayadayada!

Well said, Grumpmaster! Where has tolerance gone, O wonder? :-(

With best wishes,

Peter.

--
Peter  \  /      zfc Er       \     Prestbury, Cheltenham,  Glos. GL52
Anne    \/ __            __    \                              England.
and     / /  \ | | |\ | /  _    \      http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
family /  \__/ \_/ | \| \__/     \______________ pnyo...@ormail.co.uk.


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Ste (news)  
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 More options 9 Apr, 21:12
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.misc
From: "Ste (news)" <st...@revi11.plus.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 21:12:48 +0100
Local: Wed 9 Apr 2008 21:12
Subject: Re: Castle What?
In article <4f8d748c97...@invalid.org.uk>,
   Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:

> Don't argue, just read this, or suggest other people read it if you have.

> http://www.riscosopen.org/content/documents/licences

and this:

  http://www.riscosopen.org/content/documents/ssfaq

Steve

--
Steve Revill @ Home
Note: All opinions expressed herein are my own.


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Rob Kendrick  
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 More options 9 Apr, 22:21
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.misc
From: Rob Kendrick <n...@rjek.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 21:21:56 GMT
Local: Wed 9 Apr 2008 22:21
Subject: Re: Castle What?

On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:37:37 -0700, Aaron wrote:
> Actually I have spent hundreds of hours on "free" software and
> contributed thousands of lines of code :-)

By free, I mean libre, not dreadful cross-stitch programs given away free
on CDs to subscribers :)  What have you done, out of interest?

> but not in the last few years:-(

A shame.

> Despite spending time doing this I still managed to read the relevant
> documents. I also studied contract law and licencing agreements as part
> of my degree. I also learnt to read :-)

But not to spell or form cogent sentences, as some of your recent posts
are anything to go by! :)

My argument is thus: "Open source" is a vague and overloaded term, but by
the most generous and meaningful definition, anything whose source is
available for study can be referred to as such.  This leaves the problem
that such "shared source" schemes, as well as software whose source is
available for security auditing purposes (such as PGP) are also included;
which is why we have terms like "free software" and "software libre" to
separate them from projects under licences such as the GPL and MIT.

B.


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Theo Markettos  
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 More options 9 Apr, 22:36
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.misc
From: Theo Markettos <theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Date: 09 Apr 2008 22:36:15 +0100 (BST)
Local: Wed 9 Apr 2008 22:36
Subject: Re: Castle What?

Rob Kendrick <n...@rjek.com> wrote:
> It certainly is; you've failed to manage even on your second attempt.  
> Third time lucky?

News just in: different people define things in different ways.  It doesn't
matter.  People manage to communicate.  It's not the end of the world.

Now back to our main story on yesterday's nuclear apocalyse.  Over to our
fashion correspondent...

Theo


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Ste (news)  
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 More options 9 Apr, 22:51
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.misc
From: "Ste (news)" <st...@revi11.plus.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 22:51:04 +0100
Local: Wed 9 Apr 2008 22:51
Subject: Re: Castle What?
In article <UraLj.60361$jH5.23...@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
   Rob Kendrick <n...@rjek.com> wrote:

> My argument is thus: "Open source" is a vague and overloaded term, but by
> the most generous and meaningful definition, anything whose source is
> available for study can be referred to as such.

I agree - if that wasn't the case, what on Earth _is_ the overarching term
you can use to describe software whos source is open such that anyone can
look at it or contribute changes?

However, I recognise that such concerns don't trouble the average Joe so
we've been very careful on the ROOL site to stick to the OSI definition of
"Open Source" and not use it when referring to the bulk of the RISC OS
sources (although you will find that some of it is GPL, some BSD, etc).

"Shared source" is a horrible term, IMHO. I'd much rather we (all) were
realistic in calling open sources "open source" (as opposed to "closed
source") and free (libre) software "free software".

Hey ho.

Steve

--
Steve Revill @ Home
Note: All opinions expressed herein are my own.


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David Pitt  
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 More options 10 Apr, 07:52
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.misc
From: David Pitt <n...@pittdj.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 07:52:10 +0100
Local: Thurs 10 Apr 2008 07:52
Subject: Re: Castle What?

Dave Symes <d...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

> [Snip the lot]

> How quickly some people can degenarate a thread.  :-(

> Less than 24 hours ago I asked a couple of serious questions, and now this
> thread has degenerated into a snarling match about who done what/why and
> to whom in the past.

> We saw all the polarized garbage in the past discussions, until our eyes
> and minds were weary of the subject.

Newshound is most capable of resolving this. With my fud killing
arrangements there are only 17, and generally sensible, posts in the thread
whereas in the raw there are 40.

> I don't care who done what/why and to whom in the past, this SARPC is
> getting very old (13) and occasionally has little fits, so I have to
> wonder, where to next... I do have a Win Laptop with VRPC SA installed and
> working... Yadayadayada!

Where to next, boils down to but few options. The only current fully
functioning RISC OS platforms that can be purchased right now are the Iyonix
and VRPC on WindowsXP. (I cannot speak for VRPC on Macs as I do not have one
and I think I am right to say it is still in beta.)

--
David Pitt

Gemini on Ubuntu 7.10


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Martin Wuerthner  
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 More options 10 Apr, 08:50
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.misc
From: Martin Wuerthner <spamt...@mw-software.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 09:50:25 +0200
Local: Thurs 10 Apr 2008 08:50
Subject: Re: Castle What?
In message <gemini.jz3key00asdhc0516.n...@pittdj.co.