Ian here, him of Karma fame ;-). Still fire up my acorns, mostly for code dev as StrongEd is still such a good editor. Been living in Norway for almost ten years and worked with Guttorm Vik of StrongEd fame early on. I still get entusiastic conversations on the Karma front from Sveinung when I see him, which is often a bit strange and hard work after such a long time, but also kinda fun. Funny, the world has moved on so much since those heady days, but still there are aspects and concepts that have never been repeated. If I had 20 million of a reasonable currency, it would still be a relevent project to bring up to date. I have thought often about it, and about porting the CASE tool Rick and I made to hold all the data, really killer design tool back then, and still is I think. It is now a long time since Rick died. He is often in my thoughts of course because that was such a special time, and his widow is still a great and precious friend. If anyone wishes to talk, discuss, the project is still easily brought to the forefront of my mind. Like I say, just popped in to say hi. Lots has happened since to us all, in code, I've covered a lot of C, Oracle (PL/SQL) and now mobile phone code ( very interesting ). Take care all and keep the acorn flag alive.
In article <4733bde...@news.broadpark.no>, Ian Robinson <i...@broadpark.no> wrote:
> Take care all and keep the acorn flag alive. > Regards, > Ian. > -- > Ian David Robinson
Hi Ian. Good to hear from you. I did play the Karma Flight Trainer for a while, but I never could get the hang of manual flying, so gave up... It was a shame about Rick. I had a feeling that Karma could have been a game with huge potential. I'm mostly a PC gamer nowadays, but I still like to keep in touch with the RO side of things through VAcorn...;-) Good luck and best wishes for the future...;-)
William
-- Using Virtual RISC PC Adjust on an Athlon 64 PC
In message <4733bde...@news.broadpark.no> "Ian Robinson" <i...@broadpark.no> wrote:
> Ian here, him of Karma fame ;-). Still fire up my acorns, mostly for code > dev as StrongEd is still such a good editor.
Good to hear that you're still keeping a slight eye on us, and still using RISC OS a bit. Karma was a hugely interesting project (you may recall me plotting an HR diagram from some of its stars), and nothing has remotely approached it's ambitiousness in the intervening time.
In message <4f3f26bd35wul...@hame.the.noo.invalid> William McNee <wul...@hame.the.noo.invalid> wrote:
> In article <4733bde...@news.broadpark.no>, > Ian Robinson <i...@broadpark.no> wrote: >> Take care all and keep the acorn flag alive.
>> Regards,
>> Ian. >> -- >> Ian David Robinson
> Hi Ian. Good to hear from you. > I did play the Karma Flight Trainer for a while, but I never could get the > hang of manual flying, so gave up...
I didn't find flying too hard, just trying to search through dozens and dozens of beacons and satellites for the next instruction amidst numerous planets.
> It was a shame about Rick. I had a feeling that Karma could have been a > game with huge potential. > I'm mostly a PC gamer nowadays, but I still like to keep in touch with the > RO side of things through VAcorn...;-) > Good luck and best wishes for the future...;-)
Last time I remember hearing from Ian was around the time I first got internet access at home so it's a good number of years. Great to hear from him again!
On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 01:54:53 -0000, Ian Robinson <i...@broadpark.no> wrote: > Ian here, him of Karma fame ;-). Still fire up my acorns, mostly for code > dev as StrongEd is still such a good editor. > Been living in Norway for almost ten years and worked with Guttorm Vik of > StrongEd fame early on. > I still get entusiastic conversations on the Karma front from Sveinung > when > I see him, which is often a bit strange and hard work after such a long > time, but also kinda fun. Funny, the world has moved on so much since > those > heady days, but still there are aspects and concepts that have never been > repeated. If I had 20 million of a reasonable currency, it would still > be a > relevent project to bring up to date. I have thought often about it, and > about porting the CASE tool Rick and I made to hold all the data, really > killer design tool back then, and still is I think. > It is now a long time since Rick died. He is often in my thoughts of > course > because that was such a special time, and his widow is still a great and > precious friend. > If anyone wishes to talk, discuss, the project is still easily brought to > the forefront of my mind. Like I say, just popped in to say hi. > Lots has happened since to us all, in code, I've covered a lot of C, > Oracle > (PL/SQL) and now mobile phone code ( very interesting ). > Take care all and keep the acorn flag alive.
> Regards,
> Ian. > -- > Ian David Robinson
Good to see you're keeping busy! You should've popped in a few months back - there was a brief discussion about how much we would pay for a version of Karma :-)
And fifteen years after buying the Flight Trainer, I managed to finish it with a little help from this group (now THAT's value for money!)
Good to receive all your replys. Simon, I remember you well, Mark, Andrew and William (I still know all who bought the flight trainer back then ;-)).
William: the flight trainer was partly a response to the acorn world wanting to know that what we were saying was real. You maybe can understand that. We had truly real things up and runing, beyond what had been experienced, and chose to show that it existed. The FT was only 15% of what we had in our hands ( and still is ). Sure, the 'trek' was a little tough. It was a way of showing that the cosmological authenticity was accurate, and if you worked that out, and trusted our knowledge at the time, you would be able to find and solve the tasks, as indeed many people did. This convincing reality was just a backdrop, and an important one - if you can believe the environment then the 'life' within it would be accepted so much more easily, and the experience be so much more rewarding. I have no doubts that we got things right, I have no doubts that what we wanted to show you and for you to experience would have been (still is) totally immersive and rewarding. Just imagine that realistic and huge space with 81 civilisations dashing around it for a multitude of reasons... Yes, manual flight was tough, that's why we had an autopilot, but manual flight close to an object (satellite) going at 14 km per sec allows you to nudge your ship carefully and definately experience what it would really be like. Of course I have been lucky enough to pull up to space stations over 2 km wide and do the same with tiny 50m craft buzzing around, gets even more fun :-). And can you imagine what it is like to 'hail' and communicate with any one of them and get a real answer?.. these 'people' know what they are doing and why and speak back. I will never forget when Rick and I 'spke' to a ship for the first time, Rick was reeeeaaaaallly doubtful but followed and coded a few things to help that connection (via assembler), and the guy spoke back, told us who he was and what he was doing. Rick almost fell off his chair! I knew it was going to happen, and knew that some off the biggest challenges were solved ( all in the head over a very crazy time, but I had got it right, you cannot imagine how that felt).
[ ...and just reading an Elite hyperspace post here now...it was a wonderful thing to step past that fiction and to allow people to really travel between stars, not a bodge, kludge, but true travel... andway, I digress ;-.). ]
Simon: I am so glad you understand that the concept is still valid. That is so true. I quote a lot of cash because the world has moved on and one would have to spend so much on artists and music, just to be recognisable in today's market, let alone a team of good coders for 3 years to make it happen, it is a different world. But the concepts ( and indeed the actual, stilll present code and data ) have not been approached, thank you. The big change has been the internet of course, and I have worked out massive multiplayer versions of , where we can preserve the spirit and technically get thousands playing simultaenously, those conclusions are still valid. And yes, I remember your HR diagrams...;-).
Mark: I really wish I had seen that discussion ;-). Not for the way the cash discussion went of course, but the fact the discussion happened at all. My version of the game is obviously well advanced from what all you have seen, I just wish you could come that step further. And my goal of the game is as it was and I still think would blow my mind away (afterall, that's why we do these things). Perhaps...if the right things fall into place, we could all enjoy that :-).
So...I am still able to run vsn. 1.23, thousands of 'people' are there, ready to do there tasks...what a frustration that has been over the years...the hard work ( in some ways ) was done, the stories (dynamic of course ) are present, what a sadness.
But life is ok. The unfulfilled gane is not longer such a sadness for me, I am glad it is still within the imagination of others. I will never say that it cannot be fulfilled - it can. Perhaps life will introduce the unexpected, afterall, that's how it all started...
Regards to you all,
Ian.
"Mark West" <mark.w...@freenet.co.uk> wrote in message
> On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 01:54:53 -0000, Ian Robinson <i...@broadpark.no> > wrote:
>> Ian here, him of Karma fame ;-). Still fire up my acorns, mostly for code >> dev as StrongEd is still such a good editor. >> Been living in Norway for almost ten years and worked with Guttorm Vik of >> StrongEd fame early on. >> I still get entusiastic conversations on the Karma front from Sveinung >> when >> I see him, which is often a bit strange and hard work after such a long >> time, but also kinda fun. Funny, the world has moved on so much since >> those >> heady days, but still there are aspects and concepts that have never been >> repeated. If I had 20 million of a reasonable currency, it would still >> be a >> relevent project to bring up to date. I have thought often about it, and >> about porting the CASE tool Rick and I made to hold all the data, really >> killer design tool back then, and still is I think. >> It is now a long time since Rick died. He is often in my thoughts of >> course >> because that was such a special time, and his widow is still a great and >> precious friend. >> If anyone wishes to talk, discuss, the project is still easily brought to >> the forefront of my mind. Like I say, just popped in to say hi. >> Lots has happened since to us all, in code, I've covered a lot of C, >> Oracle >> (PL/SQL) and now mobile phone code ( very interesting ). >> Take care all and keep the acorn flag alive.
>> Regards,
>> Ian. >> -- >> Ian David Robinson
> Good to see you're keeping busy! You should've popped in a few months > ack - there was a brief discussion about how much we would pay for a > version of Karma :-)
> And fifteen years after buying the Flight Trainer, I managed to finish it > with a little help from this group (now THAT's value for money!)
In message <4737a50...@news.broadpark.no> "Ian Robinson" <i...@broadpark.no> wrote:
[snip]
> so true. I quote a lot of cash because the world has moved on and one would > have to spend so much on artists and music, just to be recognisable in > today's market, let alone a team of good coders for 3 years to make it > happen,
Has anyone thought of a game engine where the gameplay is designed first, with simple low power graphics, and would be releasable on low power systems? Once that is right, then it could have good graphics and music added for release on high end platforms.
On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 00:57:47 -0000, Ian Robinson <i...@broadpark.no> wrote:
[snip]
> The big change has been the internet of course, and I have worked out > massive > multiplayer versions of , where we can preserve the spirit and > technically > get thousands playing simultaenously, those conclusions are still valid. > And yes, I remember your HR diagrams...;-).
The 'problem' with the internet and MMOGs is that they invite people who aren't totally immersed in the game; it's too easy for human online players to start chatting about last night's footy... IMHO, the LIFE in Karma is the unique selling point. (Oh, and a developers' kit would be nice!)
> Mark: I really wish I had seen that discussion ;-). Not for the way the > cash > discussion went of course, but the fact the discussion happened at all. > My version of the game is obviously well advanced from what all you have > seen, I just wish you could come that step further. And my goal of the > game > is as it was and I still think would blow my mind away (afterall, that's > why > we do these things). Perhaps...if the right things fall into place, we > could > all enjoy that :-).
I think 100ukp was mentioned by either me/ Simon C/ Alan C in this group.... We really do want to play it!
<me> Volunteers as independent K1.23 Acorn Beta-tester before they do :-) (Hey, it's worth a try...) </me>
> So...I am still able to run vsn. 1.23, thousands of 'people' are there, > ready to do there tasks...what a frustration that has been over the > years...the hard work ( in some ways ) was done, the stories (dynamic of > course ) are present, what a sadness.
> But life is ok. The unfulfilled gane is not longer such a sadness for > me, I > am glad it is still within the imagination of others. I will never say > that > it cannot be fulfilled - it can. Perhaps life will introduce the > unexpected, > afterall, that's how it all started...
I'm sure you'd get some interest for the above version for the above amount from this group...
And you could always license the Life code to a Mr. D. Braben - I hear he's been working on some sort of space game for a while...
In message <op.t1o5f8oehw38fl@tankbust-bdfhdn> "Mark West" <mark.w...@freenet.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 00:57:47 -0000, Ian Robinson <i...@broadpark.no> wrote: > I think 100ukp was mentioned by either me/ Simon C/ Alan C in this > group.... We really do want to play it! > <me> Volunteers as independent K1.23 Acorn Beta-tester before they do :-) > (Hey, it's worth a try...) </me>
Wasn't me, but if the rest of it is as full of detail as the physical side of things in the flight trainer then it sounds worth it. I'll muscle in to be the second!
> And you could always license the Life code to a Mr. D. Braben - I hear > he's been working on some sort of space game for a while...
Places like alt.fan.elite are increasingly sceptical about that.
>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 00:57:47 -0000, Ian Robinson <i...@broadpark.no> >> wrote:
>> I think 100ukp was mentioned by either me/ Simon C/ Alan C in this >> group.... We really do want to play it!
>> <me> Volunteers as independent K1.23 Acorn Beta-tester before they do >> :-) >> (Hey, it's worth a try...) </me>
> Wasn't me, but if the rest of it is as full of detail as the physical > side of things in the flight trainer then it sounds worth it. I'll > muscle in to be the second!
>> And you could always license the Life code to a Mr. D. Braben - I hear >> he's been working on some sort of space game for a while...
> Places like alt.fan.elite are increasingly sceptical about that.
I'm really not suprised. Maybe DB's waiting for Ian Bell to finish off some routines? ;-)
Seriously though, if K sadly cannot be realised (financially) and Elite 4 /has/ progressed beyond >10REM * == ELITE4 == *_ then perhaps IDR really /should/ look at getting a cash return on his time and effort; the work's been done, after all, and there's no doubt that a) he deserves it and b) a work like Karma deserves a huge audience, in whatever shape or form. It would sell: witness Flight Sims - I know people who are happy to spend hours flying over the Atlantic in real-time... A top-spec space-sim would sell. (And save us from another "X - Beyond the Whogivesacrap" release :-/ )
Nothing on any platform has come close to what K offered when it was begun (or at least discussed) almost 20 years ago. I think that says a lot about Acorn coders of the time and, shamefully, the PC gaming industry today (in which it's far easier to offer multiplayer games for the 'k1Dz' than it is to spend time developing a killer AI component to a title). Rant over!
...and no, Ian hasn't accepted my kind and selfless offer as yet ;-)
