Garmin gps18: The best DIY gps refclock?
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1.  Terje Mathisen  
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 More options 25 Nov 2005, 12:27
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
From: Terje Mathisen <terje.mathi...@hda.hydro.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 13:27:36 +0100
Local: Fri 25 Nov 2005 12:27
Subject: Garmin gps18: The best DIY gps refclock?
I decided to look into this interesting unit, both due the the low
price, and the fact that nearly all my other refclocks are Motorola Oncores.

The gps18lvc is an OEM model of the Garmin 12-channel/WAAS receiver,
packed together with an antenna into a small puck device. The PPS signal
is specified as "< 1 us", which means that the stability of the server
system clock will determine the actual performance.

At the other end of the (default) 3 m cable there's just a set of
colour-coded wires, carrying rs232-level send/receive/ground & pps
signals, as well as a pair of (slightly thicker) red/black power supply
wires.

I got the gps in a couple of days from a local distributor here in Oslo,
and picked up a 9-pin female rs232 connector with housing and a 1 m
small-size USB cable: Total cost was less than 1000 NOK, in the US I'm
guessing you could get the same for approx $100.

(Google... Yes, it seems like the gps itself is available for about $80!)

I then cut the USB cable and identified the +5V power wires (also
red/black coded!), I cut off the USB signaling wires with a small offset
between them to avoid any risk of a short circuit.

The only remaining task was to solder the signaling wires onto the rs232
connector:

pin     signal  colour
----------------------
1       PPS     yellow
2       TX      white
3       RX      green
5       GND     black

and join the remaining red/black wires to the corresponding pair from
the USB cable.

After wrapping some electician's tape for insulation around the power
lead joins, I carefully fit everthing inside the 9-pin rs232 cap and
closed it up.

Total time was less than 2 hours, including the trip to pick up the
parts, and it worked immediately:

>>ntpq -c rv -p ntp1

assID=0 status=0464 leap_none, sync_uhf_clock, 6 events,
event_peer/strat_chg,
version="ntpd 4.2...@1.1431-o Fri Nov 11 11:38:18 UTC 2005 (2)"?,
processor="i386", system="FreeBSD/6.0-RELEASE", leap=00, stratum=1,
precision=-19, rootdelay=0.000, rootdispersion=0.298, peer=9366,
refid=GPS, reftime=c7302007.2b87bce7  Thu, Nov 24 2005 12:18:31.170,
poll=4, clock=0xc730200a.a6e567d2, state=4, offset=0.010,
frequency=29.775, jitter=0.002, noise=0.002, stability=0.000, tai=0
  remote        refid   st t when poll reach delay offset jitter
================================================================
+ntp9.hda.hydro. .GPS.  1 u    2   16  377  0.625   0.023  0.006
-nontp1.hydroisp 136.15 2 u   34   64  377  1.523   0.560  0.287
+nontp2.hydroisp .GPS.  1 u   33   64  377  1.608   0.401  0.092
-nontp4.hydroisp 136.15 2 u   25   64  377  4.424  -0.212  0.975
-nontp5.hydroisp 163.34 2 u   20   64  377  4.446   0.292  1.751
-nontp8.hydroisp .GPS.  1 u    4   64  377  8.628   0.511  8.086
*GPS_NMEA(0)     .GPS.  0 l    3   16  377  0.000   0.010  0.002

I'm currently gathering clockstats info on the unit, my current
guesstimate would be something like ~5 us RMS time offset.

I used Garmin's SNSRCFG_280.exe program to setup the gps to work in NMEA
mode, sending out the most common time/position reports (including
GPRMC, which is preferred by the ntpd NMEA driver) once per second.

Using a spare USB plug as the power supply is a particularly nice
option, since any PC used as an ntpd server these days will have at
least one usch port available!

Terje


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2.  David J Taylor  
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 More options 25 Nov 2005, 14:57
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
From: "David J Taylor" <david-tay...@blueyonder.co.not-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk.invalid>
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 14:57:59 GMT
Local: Fri 25 Nov 2005 14:57
Subject: Re: Garmin gps18: The best DIY gps refclock?

Terje Mathisen wrote:
> I decided to look into this interesting unit, both due the the low
> price, and the fact that nearly all my other refclocks are Motorola
> Oncores.

> The gps18lvc is an OEM model of the Garmin 12-channel/WAAS receiver,
> packed together with an antenna into a small puck device. The PPS
> signal
> is specified as "< 1 us", which means that the stability of the server
> system clock will determine the actual performance.
[]
> I'm currently gathering clockstats info on the unit, my current
> guesstimate would be something like ~5 us RMS time offset.
[]
> Terje

This looks excellent, Terje.  Now, if only there was a Windows driver!

David


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3.  Roman Mäder  
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 More options 25 Nov 2005, 15:17
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
From: Roman Mäder <newsXXF.10.rmae...@spamgourmet.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 16:17:07 +0100
Local: Fri 25 Nov 2005 15:17
Subject: Re: Garmin gps18: The best DIY gps refclock?

it never occurred to me to use USB power, good idea. I used an old mobile
phone charger that happened to output the correct voltage. My unit is over
10m away from the computer room, so I made the connection with CAT5 network
cable that terminates in a RJ-45 wall socket, from where a patch cable
leads to an RJ45-DB25 adaptor. These adaptors come with 8 pins connected to
the RJ-45 socket that can be inserted into any position in the DB25 plug,
so it is easy to make nonstandard connections. I drilled a hole for the
power leads and soldered them to the phone charger. Works fine for me.

With temperatures stable, jitter can be as low as 0.001ms.

Roman Maeder


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4.  Eugen COCA  
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 More options 28 Nov 2005, 12:52
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
From: "Eugen COCA" <ec...@eed.usv.ro>
Date: 28 Nov 2005 04:52:24 -0800
Local: Mon 28 Nov 2005 12:52
Subject: Re: Garmin gps18: The best DIY gps refclock?
Any indication about connecting the PPS signal and setting up the ntpd
service to work with ?

Thank you !

P.S. I think the 1 us jitter is true only if using the PPS signal.


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5.  Roman Mäder  
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 More options 28 Nov 2005, 13:17
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
From: Roman Mäder <newsXXF.10.rmae...@spamgourmet.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:17:19 +0100
Local: Mon 28 Nov 2005 13:17
Subject: Re: Garmin gps18: The best DIY gps refclock?

Eugen COCA wrote:
> Any indication about connecting the PPS signal and setting up the ntpd
> service to work with ?

> Thank you !

> P.S. I think the 1 us jitter is true only if using the PPS signal.

I did configure the PPS device in addition to the NMEA refclock,
but it does not give me any additional accuracy.
this "ntpq -p" output is typical:

     remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
=========================================================================== ===
+GPS_NMEA(0)     .GPS.            0 l   25   64  377    0.000   -0.036   0.020
oPPS(0)          .PPS.            0 l   43   64  377    0.000   -0.046   0.030
...

configured as:

server 127.127.20.0 mode 2 prefer
server 127.127.22.0
fudge 127.127.22.1 flag3 1

I am not sure about the PPS kernel stuff. ntptime gives me

ntp_gettime() returns code 0 (OK)
  time c735804b.b2cb2000  Mon, Nov 28 2005 14:10:35.698, (.698412),
  maximum error 28509 us, estimated error 16 us
ntp_adjtime() returns code 0 (OK)
  modes 0x0 (),
  offset 5.000 us, frequency 6.200 ppm, interval 256 s,
  maximum error 28509 us, estimated error 16 us,
  status 0x107 (PLL,PPSFREQ,PPSTIME,PPSSIGNAL),
  time constant 2, precision 1.000 us, tolerance 512 ppm,
  pps frequency 0.000 ppm, stability 0.000 ppm, jitter 2.000 us,
  intervals 4299, jitter exceeded 12, stability exceeded 12, errors 67.

is this really the "true" PPS, or is there more to it?
This is ntp 4.2.0 on Solaris 8, UltraSPARC

Roman Maeder


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6.  Eugen COCA  
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 More options 28 Nov 2005, 13:27
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
From: "Eugen COCA" <ec...@eed.usv.ro>
Date: 28 Nov 2005 05:27:43 -0800
Local: Mon 28 Nov 2005 13:27
Subject: Re: Garmin gps18: The best DIY gps refclock?
I was interested about how did you connect the PPS signal to the RS232
interface, say the wardware configuration.

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7.  Roman Mäder  
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 More options 28 Nov 2005, 14:22
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
From: Roman Mäder <newsXXF.10.rmae...@spamgourmet.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:22:44 +0100
Local: Mon 28 Nov 2005 14:22
Subject: Re: Garmin gps18: The best DIY gps refclock?

Eugen COCA wrote:
> I was interested about how did you connect the PPS signal to the RS232
> interface, say the wardware configuration.

I simply connected the PPS wire (yellow) to the DCD (carrier detect) of the
same serial port that receives the data from the Garmin. You have to create
a link /dev/pps0 -> /dev/term/b, because the PPS refclock (#22) looks there
for the PPS signal.

the connections go like this:

Garmin                  RJ45                    DB25f-Adaptor   Sun DB 25

Vin     Red             7,5     ws/br,ws/bl     gn,br           (+5V)
Gnd     Black           8,1     br,ws/or        bl,ws           (Gnd)

PPS     yellow          2       or              or       8      DCD (PPS)
Gnd     black           4       bl              rt       7      Gnd
Tx      white           3       ws/gn           sw       3      Rx (in)
Rx      green           6       gn              ge       2      Tx (out)

(color codes:
ws=white, sw=black, br=brown, bl=blue, or=orange, gn=green, ge=yellow,
rt=red)

the power lines are not connected to the DB25, but to an external power
supply. The RJ45-DB25 adaptor is item 12.03.8030 from rotronic,
<http://shop.rotronic.ch/>

For setting up the Garmin, the DB25 is conntected via an adaptor to the DB9
port of a laptop running Garmin's SNSRCFG tool. This is also how I updated
the firmware.

Roman Maeder


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8.  John Pettitt  
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 More options 28 Nov 2005, 17:58
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
From: John Pettitt <j...@cloudview.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:58:57 -0800
Local: Mon 28 Nov 2005 17:58
Subject: Re: Garmin gps18: The best DIY gps refclock?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

The NMEA driver (20) has PPS code built in so you don't need the stand
alone PPS driver (22) - that's why you don't see any difference.  If
you remove the link to pps0 from /dev and restart ntpd you'll see the
non PPS results (not even close to the PPS numbers).

John (also using a GPS18LVC)
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (MingW32)

iD8DBQFDi0VhaVyA7PElsKkRA39BAKDWaUm7EMjK8qbuqWZnmVbJ+EI6SgCeOYaS
l5dUveDXS133uGRnmR/bGMM=
=FCfK
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


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9.  Terje Mathisen  
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 More options 28 Nov 2005, 18:08
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
From: Terje Mathisen <terje.mathi...@hda.hydro.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:08:48 +0100
Local: Mon 28 Nov 2005 18:08
Subject: Re: Garmin gps18: The best DIY gps refclock?

John Pettitt wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160

> Roman Mäder wrote:
>>server 127.127.20.0 mode 2 prefer
>>server 127.127.22.0
>>fudge 127.127.22.1 flag3 1

> The NMEA driver (20) has PPS code built in so you don't need the stand
> alone PPS driver (22) - that's why you don't see any difference.  If
> you remove the link to pps0 from /dev and restart ntpd you'll see the
> non PPS results (not even close to the PPS numbers).

I don't think you need even the /dev/pps0 link/device:

The NMEA driver assumes that a PPS signal will be on the DCD pin (if
available), and uses it automatically:

ntp1# ls -la /dev/pps*
ls: No match.
ntp1# ls -la /dev/gps*
lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  10 Nov 23 14:07 /dev/gps0 -> /dev/cuad0
ntp1# ntpq -p
     remote     refid    st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
=========================================================================== ===
+ntp9.hda.hydro. .GPS.   1 u    7   16  377    0.673    0.018   0.013
-nontp1.hydroisp 136.15  2 u   22   64  377    1.398    0.537   0.202
-nontp2.hydroisp .GPS.   1 u   53   64  377    1.513    0.353   0.053
+nontp8.hydroisp .GPS.   1 u   46   64  377    8.108    0.230   5.128
*GPS_NMEA(0)     .GPS.   0 l    3   16  377    0.000   -0.004   0.002

ntp9 is located on the same LAN segment, while the other servers are
behind firewalls, and (as seen from the delay values) even on the other
side of the country.

Terje

--
- <Terje.Mathi...@hda.hydro.com>
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"


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10.  Terje Mathisen  
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 More options 28 Nov 2005, 14:12
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
From: Terje Mathisen <terje.mathi...@hda.hydro.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:12:23 +0100
Local: Mon 28 Nov 2005 14:12
Subject: Re: Garmin gps18: The best DIY gps refclock?

Eugen COCA wrote:
> Any indication about connecting the PPS signal and setting up the ntpd
> service to work with ?

As I wrote, the PPS signal is carried on the yellow wire, connected to
pin 1 of the 9-pin RS232 connector, which is the DCD signal.

> Thank you !

> P.S. I think the 1 us jitter is true only if using the PPS signal.

Of course.

Terje
--
- <Terje.Mathi...@hda.hydro.com>
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"


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