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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: "[H]omer" <s...@uce.gov>
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2008 18:58:08 +0000
Local: Sun 2 Mar 2008 18:58
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Scott Guthrie Lies About/Twists "Cross-platform" to Hijack Web
Miguel de Icaza wrote: Well well, the big guns are out in full force this weekend, aren't they? > Microsoft in this case is doing the right thing: they are assisting > the Mono group to have an open source implementation that will be > fully compatible with their implementation While you're here, please allow me to take this opportunity to ask a few 1) ... What proportion of Mono uses Microsoft's patented technology, 2) ... To what degree do you trust ECMA and the RAND covenant to not 3) ... To what degree do you Trust Microsoft, either in terms of their > They even took an extra step and will distribute their optimized 4) ... Do you foresee a point in the future where access to much of the > media codecs (as a binary blob) for users. Those that feel strongly > about not using binary blobs, can just use FFMPEG (this is what is > supported by default if you compile from source code anyways). Web might be impossible, or at least extraordinarily difficult, without the use of Silverlight, much like Microsoft tried to do with ActiveX and other proprietary; encumbered; and non-standard technology during the Netscape years? 5) ... Do you further forsee the likelihood that the binary blobs, that 6) ... Therefore do you concede that it is possible, and indeed likely, 7) ... And finally, do you think it is prudent, or even morally right, Thanks in advance for your assistance. -- .---- Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8 You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: Miguel de Icaza <miguel.de.ic...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 08:07:38 -0800 (PST)
Local: Mon 3 Mar 2008 16:07
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Scott Guthrie Lies About/Twists "Cross-platform" to Hijack Web
> 1) ... What proportion of Mono uses Microsoft's patented technology, http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing Which is not different than any other open source project. > 2) ... To what degree do you trust ECMA and the RAND covenant to not See the above link. > sue, for the use of any Microsoft Intellectual Property? > 3) ... To what degree do you Trust Microsoft, either in terms of their This is a question that is suitable for Teen magazine or Cosmo. > promises; their motivations; or their commitment to a competing platform > like Linux? Sadly there is no bumper-sticker answer, or I would gladly give you > 4) ... Do you foresee a point in the future where access to much of the Another question suitable for Teen magazine. > Web might be impossible, or at least extraordinarily difficult, without > the use of Silverlight, much like Microsoft tried to do with ActiveX and > other proprietary; encumbered; and non-standard technology during the > Netscape years? Replace "Silverlight" with Javascript in the above question. Can you Or replace "Silverlight" with "Flash", you certainly can browse People will adopt Silverlight when it solves a problem for them, and > 5) ... Do you further forsee the likelihood that the binary blobs, that You are not required to use the binary blobs. You can build > you speak of, become a hard dependency in order to fully utilise the > future Web, as it will be reborn in Microsoft's image, given the > possibility that Microsoft may develop new proprietary and encumbered > codecs, or enforce their Intellectual Property rights on Free > implementations of existing codecs, such as those used in FFMPEG? Moonlight yourself and use the FFMPEG codecs. Novell will not be redistributing the FFMPEG based code due to the > 6) ... Therefore do you concede that it is possible, and indeed likely, You seem confused, and you seem to be asking questions and answering > that the future of the Web (and in other contexts - office documents and > software development) might end up becoming utterly dependent of > Microsoft's Intellectual Property, and thus effectively controlled (in > essence "owned") by Microsoft, just as they have been striving to do for > so long, and have currently succeeded in other areas, such as the OEM > channel; games development; hardware support; and elsewhere? those yourself. > 7) ... And finally, do you think it is prudent, or even morally right, I have blogged extensively about this question, you might want to read > for Free Software developers to essentially help Microsoft in their > endeavours to dominate the Web; office formats; and software > development, particularly as Microsoft has continuously expressed so > much contempt and hatred for the principles of Free Software and Open > Standards over the years? my blog on those subjects. There are two dimensions to this problem, and I have addressed both: a) Microsoft providing a tool that people actually want to use, with a feature range of things that are genuinely useful while nobody else is; (b) whether its good for Linux to be a second class citizen on the web when you are unable to watch content. Miguel You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: Linonut <lino...@bollsouth.nut>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 11:51:57 -0500
Local: Mon 3 Mar 2008 16:51
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Scott Guthrie Lies About/Twists "Cross-platform" to Hijack Web
* Miguel de Icaza peremptorily fired off this memo:
>> 1) ... What proportion of Mono uses Microsoft's patented technology, > Read our policy on patents (Microsoft or otherwise): > http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing > Which is not different than any other open source project. Both the Mono runtime and the Mono C# Compiler are also available For licensing details, contact mono-licens...@novell.com > (b) whether its good for Linux to be a second class citizen on the web You need to rephrase it. The question is whether it is good to convert > when you are unable to watch content. citizens into second-class citizens on the web by virtue of restricting their access to content to a format promulgated by a large, powerful, and dominant corporation, requiring the relatively expensive purchase of a proprietary (and unlicensed for production by any other vendor) operating system. -- You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: "Troy Kirkland" <k...@google.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 12:05:03 -0500
Local: Mon 3 Mar 2008 17:05
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Scott Guthrie Lies About/Twists "Cross-platform" to Hijack Web
news:x0Wyj.5584$dT.3170@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>* Miguel de Icaza peremptorily fired off this memo: Okay, it's actually better than most OSS projects. >>> 1) ... What proportion of Mono uses Microsoft's patented technology, >> Read our policy on patents (Microsoft or otherwise): >> http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing >> Which is not different than any other open source project. > It sure as hell is different: > Both the Mono runtime and the Mono C# Compiler are also available So it's licensed as open source (GPL/LGPL) and can also be licensed under a > under a proprietary license for those who can not use the LGPL and > the GPL in their code. proprietary license for *those who can not use the LGPL/GPL in their code.* What exactly is so confusing? Perhaps you don't have enough real world >> (b) whether its good for Linux to be a second class citizen on the web It was phrased just fine the first time... before you decided to twist it >> when you are unable to watch content. > You need to rephrase it. The question is whether it is good to convert around to something that was never said or implied. -- You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: Hadron <hadronqu...@googlemail.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 18:19:42 +0100
Local: Mon 3 Mar 2008 17:19
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Scott Guthrie Lies About/Twists "Cross-platform" to Hijack Web
Linonut <lino...@bollsouth.nut> writes: LOL, Liarnut is getting all frisky. > * Miguel de Icaza peremptorily fired off this memo: >>> 1) ... What proportion of Mono uses Microsoft's patented technology, >> Read our policy on patents (Microsoft or otherwise): >> http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing >> Which is not different than any other open source project. > It sure as hell is different: Thread slink inevitable. Bitch slapped by Schilling and heading for a slap from the original Is no real OSS contributor safe from the know all arseholes in COLA? intention of typing it all in again you can ignore it and carry on squealing like a little girl? No, it isn't. It is eminently sensible. >> (b) whether its good for Linux to be a second class citizen on the web > You need to rephrase it. The question is whether it is good to convert You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: Erik Funkenbusch <e...@despam-funkenbusch.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:05:35 -0500
Local: Mon 3 Mar 2008 19:05
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Scott Guthrie Lies About/Twists "Cross-platform" to Hijack Web
How is that different from QT, MySQL, or any of host of other open source
applications that offer proprietary licenses as well? >> (b) whether its good for Linux to be a second class citizen on the web You don't need to purchase anything to use Silverlight on Linux, either to >> when you are unable to watch content. > You need to rephrase it. The question is whether it is good to convert create or view using Mono. You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: Hadron <hadronqu...@googlemail.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 20:17:07 +0100
Local: Mon 3 Mar 2008 19:17
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Scott Guthrie Lies About/Twists "Cross-platform" to Hijack Web
You don't think for one minute that Liarnut actually read or understood
anything there do you? He's just posturing and showing off in his new role as Roy's lapdog following the departure of Lapdog Colly. You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: Erik Funkenbusch <e...@despam-funkenbusch.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:56:49 -0500
Local: Mon 3 Mar 2008 19:56
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Scott Guthrie Lies About/Twists "Cross-platform" to Hijack Web
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: Hadron <hadronqu...@googlemail.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:39:26 +0100
Local: Mon 3 Mar 2008 20:39
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Scott Guthrie Lies About/Twists "Cross-platform" to Hijack Web
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: The Ghost In The Machine <ew...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 12:47:05 -0800
Local: Mon 3 Mar 2008 20:47
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Scott Guthrie Lies About/Twists "Cross-platform" to Hijack Web
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