Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: Jim Richardson <warl...@eskimo.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 12:38:24 -0800
Local: Tues 4 Mar 2008 20:38
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Scott Guthrie Lies About/Twists "Cross-platform" to Hijack Web
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: Linonut <lino...@bollsouth.nut>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 15:50:34 -0500
Local: Mon 3 Mar 2008 20:50
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Scott Guthrie Lies About/Twists "Cross-platform" to Hijack Web
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: Mark Kent <mark.k...@demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 17:34:05 +0000
Local: Mon 3 Mar 2008 17:34
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Scott Guthrie Lies About/Twists "Cross-platform" to Hijack Web
Miguel de Icaza <miguel.de.ic...@gmail.com> espoused:
Umm, it was going quiet well until this point. We're not talking about Girls Aloud or Boyzone, we're talking about a company which has just been fined E650millions for anti-trust violations, and has a lengthy history of such activities which are well documented. Even Mr Ballmer said today that Microsoft's biggest *threat* is Linux. So, would you like to reconsider your response? Ballmer thinks that -- You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: "[H]omer" <s...@uce.gov>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 22:18:05 +0000
Local: Mon 3 Mar 2008 22:18
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Scott Guthrie Lies About/Twists "Cross-platform" to Hijack Web
[Attribution fixed]
Miguel de Icaza wrote: I was not asking for a reaffirmation of your policies, but rather a > [H]omer wrote: >> 1) ... What proportion of Mono uses Microsoft's patented >> technology, including that which is is part of the ECMA >> specifications? > Read our policy on patents (Microsoft or otherwise): clarification of the extent of Microsoft's property in Mono. From the link: "The core of the .NET Framework, and what has been patented by Microsoft And: "The Mono project has gone beyond both of those components and has I think it would be prudent to include patent notices with the upstream > Which is not different than any other open source project. That does not appear to be the case: "When a developer contributes code to the C# compiler or the Mono This allows Novell to re-distribute the Mono source code to parties that Particularly embedded system vendors obtain grants to the Mono runtime This would essentially preclude anyone from protecting their That does not seem at all consistent with the principles of Free Software. >> 2) ... To what degree do you trust ECMA and the RAND covenant to The above link provides no indication of either your opinion, nor >> not sue, for the use of any Microsoft Intellectual Property? > See the above link. Novell's, of the trustworthiness or authority of RAND agreements, much less how viable such agreements are in relation to Microsoft. >> 3) ... To what degree do you Trust Microsoft, either in terms of It was a question deemed serious enough by the DOJ and EU commission, >> their promises; their motivations; or their commitment to a >> competing platform like Linux? > This is a question that is suitable for Teen magazine or Cosmo. that it prompted investigation and remedy against Microsoft under the terms of anti-trust violations. > Sadly there is no bumper-sticker answer, or I would gladly give you It seems simple enough to me. Do you, or do you not trust Microsoft to > that. engage with the Free Software community with only good and honourable intentions? > This is a multi-dimensional question, that requires all the nuances If the answer is that complex, then that would seem to suggest that > of a full blog post. there are elements of doubt to your opinions of Microsoft's intentions, would it not? Perhaps you could elucidate those doubts for our benefit. > You might want to read my interviews, my blog and my position as I have, and continue to do so, including your recent Channel9 interview, > stated on Slashdot. which I found to be just as evasive and full of platitudes as all your other public comments. It is an interesting interview, however, and reveals that you are However, in your efforts to counteract the demonisation of Microsoft, Since this interview was little more than a PR exercise ("Microsoft: I'm afraid it might be an entirely unrealistic expectation for you to >> 4) ... Do you foresee a point in the future where access to much of Again, I refer you to the aforementioned anti-trust investigations. >> the Web might be impossible, or at least extraordinarily >> difficult, without the use of Silverlight, much like Microsoft >> tried to do with ActiveX and other proprietary; encumbered; and >> non-standard technology during the Netscape years? > Another question suitable for Teen magazine. Let me ask you a perfectly blunt question. Do you, or do you not think If we can establish that much, then I'll know whether or not there is > Replace "Silverlight" with Javascript in the above question. Can This is not a question of technical dependencies, this is a question of > you browse the web without Javascript? You certainly can, but some > sites do not work without it. politics and legal liabilities, Neither Sun's; Netscape's nor Mozilla's motivations or intentions are in question here; Microsoft's are. > Or replace "Silverlight" with "Flash", you certainly can browse Both Silverlight and Flash are proprietary and encumbered technologies, > youtube, but you will not get much out of it without it. and I have no interest in either one of them, beyond my fear that one day I may be completely unable to use the Web without submitting to Adobe's or Microsoft's arbitrary restrictions on my freedom. > People will adopt Silverlight when it solves a problem for them, and And who will solve the problem of society's diminishing freedoms at the > each person will have to evaluate whether Silverlight over another > technology is the right match for the problem. hands of Intellectual Monopolists? >> 5) ... Do you further forsee the likelihood that the binary blobs, Currently, yes, but if Microsoft was to forcibly assert it's >> that you speak of, become a hard dependency in order to fully >> utilise the future Web, as it will be reborn in Microsoft's image, >> given the possibility that Microsoft may develop new proprietary >> and encumbered codecs, or enforce their Intellectual Property >> rights on Free implementations of existing codecs, such as those >> used in FFMPEG? > You are not required to use the binary blobs. You can build Intellectual Property claims on the Windows Media implementation in ffmpeg, then I would have no choice but to accept these binary blobs, or face restricted access to the Web, for what I'm sure Microsoft hopes will represent an ever increasing proportion of sites that replace traditional content with Microsoft's encumbered technology. > Novell will not be redistributing the FFMPEG based code due to the Yes, I am also well aware of the conflicts of interest between ffmpeg > conflict that the LGPL has with the patents owned by MPEGLA (to which > we will become licensors). and MPEGLA, and indeed between Intellectual Monopolists and the Free Software community in general. >> 6) ... Therefore do you concede that it is possible, and indeed Not at all. I asked if you concede that it is possible. Do you or not? >> likely, that the future of the Web (and in other contexts - office >> documents and software development) might end up becoming utterly >> dependent of Microsoft's Intellectual Property, and thus >> effectively controlled (in essence "owned") by Microsoft, just as >> they have been striving to do for so long, and have currently >> succeeded in other areas, such as the OEM channel; games >> development; hardware support; and elsewhere? > You seem confused, and you seem to be asking questions and answering Microsoft's modus operandum is well known and well documented, indeed >> 7) ... And finally, do you think it is prudent, or even morally As others have noticed, that is an extremely arrogant presumption. >> right, for Free Software developers to essentially help Microsoft >> in their endeavours to dominate the Web; office formats; and >> software development, particularly as Microsoft has continuously >> expressed so much contempt and hatred for the principles of Free >> Software and Open Standards over the years? > I have blogged extensively about this question, you might want to Freedom is at least as important as functionality. As a Free Software developer, I would have hoped you'd ... You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: Linonut <lino...@bollsouth.nut>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 18:50:56 -0500
Local: Mon 3 Mar 2008 23:50
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Scott Guthrie Lies About/Twists "Cross-platform" to Hijack Web
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: William Poaster <w...@leafnode.amd64.eu>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 23:28:05 +0000
Local: Mon 3 Mar 2008 23:28
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Scott Guthrie Lies About/Twists "Cross-platform" to Hijack Web
On Monday 03 March 2008 4:07 pm, Miguel de Icaza wrote in
comp.os.linux.advocacy: <snip> If you MUST use that google shite, & not a *proper* news client, kindly -- You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.st...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:33:25 -0500
Local: Tues 26 Feb 2008 20:33
Subject: Re: [Roy Schestowitz Lies Again] Microsoft's Scott Guthrie Lies About/Twists "Cross-platform" to Hijack Web
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: Doug Mentohl <doug_ment...@linuxmail.org>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 07:38:22 -0800 (PST)
Local: Mon 3 Mar 2008 15:38
Subject: Cross-platform gets redefined ..
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: Hadron <hadronqu...@googlemail.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 16:45:27 +0100
Local: Mon 3 Mar 2008 15:45
Subject: Re: Cross-platform gets redefined ..
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: "Troy Kirkland" <k...@google.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 10:53:37 -0500
Local: Mon 3 Mar 2008 15:53
Subject: Re: Cross-platform gets redefined ..
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