> Whatever one’s opinion as to Microsoft’s products, it is hard to ignore the existence of numerous competitive alternatives to them. Indeed, Kanton Solothurn, the City of Zurich, the Federal Agency for Computer Sciences and and Telecommunictions (BIT), the Federal Institute for Intellectual Property (IGE), and other Swiss agencies are already using some of those alternatives provided by Red Hat.
Discussion subject changed to "Swiss govt agency declares Linux/OSS crapware "not a sufficientalternative to Microsoft products"" by Alexander Terekhov
Can't be. Intellectual Property DOES NOT EXIST: go ask Mark Kent of C.O.L.A.
regards, alexander.
-- http://gng.z505.com/index.htm (GNG is a derecursive recursive derecursion which pwns GNU since it can be infinitely looped as GNGNGNGNG...NGNGNG... and can be said backwards too, whereas GNU cannot.)
Ezekiel wrote: > "Matt" <m...@themattfella.xxxyyz.com> wrote in message > news:EdZIm.7403$_b5.4091@newsfe22.iad... >> John Fuhrer wrote: >>> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 10:59:48 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>> 99% of the world could have told them that, the other 1% has very low >>>> standards... >>> Or are from countries that most people can't locate on a map.
>> Not 5% of people can locate Switzerland on a map. Can you? So go back to >> sleep.
> Unless I'm planning a ski trip or looking for yodeling lessons it doesn't > really matter to me where they're located.
> But they do seem to have very high software standards.
Oh yes, like the rest of European governments moving not-so-slowly and inexorably toward FOSS for all their cornball software needs (read: OS and office and internet software).
Discussion subject changed to "Swiss govt agency declares Linux/OSS crapware "not a sufficientalternative to Microsoft products"" by Alexander Terekhov
"The Swiss Federal Institute of Intellectual Property has its headquarters in Bern. It is the federal agency for matters concerning intellectual property in Switzerland. It was founded in 1888. It received its present status as an organization incorporated under public law on January 1, 1996."
"When was the IGE established and under which names has it existed?
The IGE was established November, 15 1888. Its official names have been:
1888 to 1979 – Federal Office for Intellectual Property
1979 to 1996 – Federal Intellectual Property Agency
and, as of January 1, 1996 – Swiss Federal Institute of Intellectual Property (statutory federal institute with independent legal status)"
regards, alexander.
-- http://gng.z505.com/index.htm (GNG is a derecursive recursive derecursion which pwns GNU since it can be infinitely looped as GNGNGNGNG...NGNGNG... and can be said backwards too, whereas GNU cannot.)
Ezekiel wrote: > "Matt" <m...@themattfella.xxxyyz.com> wrote in message > news:EdZIm.7403$_b5.4091@newsfe22.iad... >> John Fuhrer wrote: >>> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 10:59:48 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>> 99% of the world could have told them that, the other 1% has very low >>>> standards... >>> Or are from countries that most people can't locate on a map.
>> Not 5% of people can locate Switzerland on a map. Can you? So go back to >> sleep.
> Unless I'm planning a ski trip or looking for yodeling lessons it doesn't > really matter to me where they're located.
> But they do seem to have very high software standards.
Anyone else offended by the arrogance in these posts? What, if a country is not waving red white and blue it is of no significance?
>>>>> 99% of the world could have told them that, the other 1% has very >>>>> low standards... >>>> Or are from countries that most people can't locate on a map.
>>> Not 5% of people can locate Switzerland on a map. Can you? So go >>> back to sleep.
>> Unless I'm planning a ski trip or looking for yodeling lessons it >> doesn't really matter to me where they're located.
>> But they do seem to have very high software standards.
> Anyone else offended by the arrogance in these posts? What, if a > country is not waving red white and blue it is of no significance?
> Ezekiel wrote: >> "Matt" <m...@themattfella.xxxyyz.com> wrote in message >> news:EdZIm.7403$_b5.4091@newsfe22.iad... >>> John Fuhrer wrote: >>>> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 10:59:48 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>>> 99% of the world could have told them that, the other 1% has very low >>>>> standards... >>>> Or are from countries that most people can't locate on a map.
>>> Not 5% of people can locate Switzerland on a map. Can you? So go back >>> to sleep.
>> Unless I'm planning a ski trip or looking for yodeling lessons it doesn't >> really matter to me where they're located.
>> But they do seem to have very high software standards.
> Anyone else offended by the arrogance in these posts? What, if a country > is not waving red white and blue it is of no significance?
You're right - that was a bad thing to say about the Swiss. I completely neglected to mention how their country comes in useful if I'm looking for a good piece of Chocolate !!!
Megabyte wrote: >>>Not 5% of people can locate Switzerland on a map.
The interesting stuff is happening 211 miles E by NE of Berne. Munich with have a 100% Free(dom) Software ecosystem deployed when their XP support goes dark in 2010.
...and to show that it can be done: At no time this century has the City of Largo, Florida used proprietary software.
>Anyone else offended by the arrogance in these posts? What, if a >country is not waving red white and blue it is of no significance?
Remember that the Swiss also collaborated with the Nazis. They have low standards and are easily corrupted.
Sorry, pal, but that's untrue. (Or as Rjack would put it, "you're lying".) No way would the name of a Swiss institute be in English.
Enough of the regulars here understand German to state the real name. At a guess, "IGE" stands for "Institut fuer geistliches Eigentum", or something like that.
Whilst "Eigentum" is usually translated into the English "property", it's meaning in German is wider: literally "self stuff". The English word denotes only physical, substantial things, despite the efforts of copyright advocates to pervert this meaning.
"Geistlich" means literally "religious" or "spiritual", and in fact is cognate to "ghostly". Translating it into "intellectual" is taking liberties indeed.
A more accurate translation would be "ghostly property" rather than "intellectual property", the word "ghostly" referring to the non-material, non-substantial, ephemeral, not-really-existing nature of that self stuff.
As you ought to realise, being a German fluent in English, you can't just do word for word translations and expect the result to be unsilly.
Alan Mackenzie <a...@muc.de> writes: > Whilst "Eigentum" is usually translated into the English "property", > it's meaning in German is wider: literally "self stuff".
Uh no. "Eigen" is not "self". It is sort of "belonging", "inherent", "characteristic". Mathematicians know "Eigenvalues" which are characteristic traits of projections.
> "Geistlich" means literally "religious" or "spiritual",
But "geistig" is not "geistlich".
> and in fact is cognate to "ghostly".
Not really.
> Translating it into "intellectual" is taking liberties indeed.
Not really. "geistig" is pretty much "mental". The Körper/Geist-dichotomy is "body/mind". "intellectual" is only slightly off for "geistig", whereas "ghostly" is complete bull.
JeffM wrote: > Megabyte wrote: >>>> Not 5% of people can locate Switzerland on a map.
> The interesting stuff is happening 211 miles E by NE of Berne. > Munich with have a 100% Free(dom) Software ecosystem > deployed when their XP support goes dark in 2010.
> ...and to show that it can be done: At no time this century > has the City of Largo, Florida used proprietary software.
>> Anyone else offended by the arrogance in these posts? What, if a >> country is not waving red white and blue it is of no significance?
> Remember that the Swiss also collaborated with the Nazis. > They have low standards and are easily corrupted.
Very penetrating comparison of Munich to Switzerland.
I wonder whether you noticed that during the war Munich was full of actual Nazis, not just Nazi collaborators.
Discussion subject changed to "Swiss govt agency declares Linux/OSS crapware "not a sufficientalternative to Microsoft products"" by Alexander Terekhov
"Unter Geistigem Eigentum (auch intellektuelles Eigentum, engl. intellectual property) werden absolute Rechte an immateriellen Gütern verstanden. Geistiges Eigentum wird daher auch als Immaterialgüterrecht bezeichnet. Inhaber eines solchen Rechts ist z. B. der Anmelder eines Patents oder der Schöpfer eines urheberrechtlichen Werks. "
-- http://gng.z505.com/index.htm (GNG is a derecursive recursive derecursion which pwns GNU since it can be infinitely looped as GNGNGNGNG...NGNGNG... and can be said backwards too, whereas GNU cannot.)
In gnu.misc.discuss Alexander Terekhov <terek...@web.de> wrote:
> Alan Oh Paragon of Guh-N? Linguistics Mackenzie wrote: > [... amusing nonsense ...] > Geistiges Eigentum in German is what "intellectual property" in English > you silly.
What an amazing assertion! Do you have any evidence to back that up?
"Geistig" does not mean "intellectual", except as a subsidiary meaning. Its primary meaning is "spiritual" or "religious", or perhaps "mental". As I said, "geistig" is cognate with "ghostly".
Yes. "Immateriellen Guetern" = "ghostly goods" or "immaterial goods" or "goods lacking any substance". It cannot be "intellectual property".
> Geistiges Eigentum wird daher auch als Immaterialgueterrecht > bezeichnet. Inhaber eines solchen Rechts ist z. B. der Anmelder eines > Patents oder der Schoepfer eines urheberrechtlichen Werks. "
Seems likely. But there's no "property" anywhere in all that. There's copyright, which is an abstract right, not anything of any material substance.
Alan Mackenzie <a...@muc.de> writes: > In gnu.misc.discuss Alexander Terekhov <terek...@web.de> wrote:
>> Alan Oh Paragon of Guh-N? Linguistics Mackenzie wrote:
>> [... amusing nonsense ...]
>> Geistiges Eigentum in German is what "intellectual property" in English >> you silly.
> What an amazing assertion!
Not really. Alexander certainly has lots of resources for talking nonsense, but in this particular case of word meaning, it is you who is barking up the wrong tree.
> Do you have any evidence to back that up?
Word meanings are not decided by evidence but consensus.
> "Geistig" does not mean "intellectual", except as a subsidiary meaning. > Its primary meaning is "spiritual" or "religious",
Still wrong. You are confusing this with "geistlich" which indeed means "spiritual/religious".
> or perhaps "mental". As I said, "geistig" is cognate with "ghostly".
In gnu.misc.discuss David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> wrote:
> Alan Mackenzie <a...@muc.de> writes: >> In gnu.misc.discuss Alexander Terekhov <terek...@web.de> wrote: >>> Geistiges Eigentum in German is what "intellectual property" in >>> English you silly. >> What an amazing assertion! > Not really. Alexander certainly has lots of resources for talking > nonsense, but in this particular case of word meaning, it is you who is > barking up the wrong tree.
Possibly, but the jist of this thread was Terekhov's attempt to show RMS ridiculous in his criticism of the term "intellectual property" by alleging that the Swiss use the term "intellectual property". The Swiss do no such thing, as I have shown (I hope).
>> "Geistig" does not mean "intellectual", except as a subsidiary meaning. >> Its primary meaning is "spiritual" or "religious", > Still wrong. You are confusing this with "geistlich" which indeed means > "spiritual/religious".
Sorry about that! My E/D dictionary lists "spiritual" as the first translation of "geistig", "intellectual/mental" only secondly.
It's easy to confuse "intellectual property" with religion. But if "geistiges Eigentum" translates into "intellectual property", then "geistige Krankheit" must be "intellectual illness", which I suppose describes the current state of this mailing list quite well.
"Intellectual" in English denotes an advanced working of the brain, whereas "geistig" in German doesn't necessarily. So enhancing Emacs is certainly intellectual, whereas the conversation on this mailing list isn't, though it might well be described as "mental".
>> or perhaps "mental". As I said, "geistig" is cognate with "ghostly". > No. "ghostly" would be "geisterhaft".
> "Geistig" does not mean "intellectual", except as a subsidiary meaning. > Its primary meaning is "spiritual" or "religious", or perhaps "mental". > As I said, "geistig" is cognate with "ghostly".
> Yes. "Immateriellen Guetern" = "ghostly goods" or "immaterial goods" or > "goods lacking any substance". It cannot be "intellectual property".
Intellectual property is a form of intangible property you idiot.
Stocks and bonds are other forms of intangible property.
> > Geistiges Eigentum wird daher auch als Immaterialgueterrecht > > bezeichnet. Inhaber eines solchen Rechts ist z. B. der Anmelder eines > > Patents oder der Schoepfer eines urheberrechtlichen Werks. "
> Seems likely. But there's no "property" anywhere in all that. There's > copyright, which is an abstract right, not anything of any material > substance.
All the euros on your bank account is your intangible property silly.
No?
Go to doctor Alan.
regards, alexander.
-- http://gng.z505.com/index.htm (GNG is a derecursive recursive derecursion which pwns GNU since it can be infinitely looped as GNGNGNGNG...NGNGNG... and can be said backwards too, whereas GNU cannot.)
> Possibly, but the jist of this thread was Terekhov's attempt to show RMS > ridiculous in his criticism of the term "intellectual property" by > alleging that the Swiss use the term "intellectual property". The Swiss > do no such thing, as I have shown (I hope).
"Welcome to the Swiss Federal Institute of Intellectual Property"
Now click on "Fr"...
And you'll get
"Bienvenue sur le site de l'Institut Fédéral de la Propriété Intellectuelle"
Finally click on "It"...
And you'll get
"Benvenuti nel sito dell'Istituto Federale della Proprietà Intellettuale"
now would you please
Aller chez le médecin
silly Alan.
regards, alexander.
-- http://gng.z505.com/index.htm (GNG is a derecursive recursive derecursion which pwns GNU since it can be infinitely looped as GNGNGNGNG...NGNGNG... and can be said backwards too, whereas GNU cannot.)
In gnu.misc.discuss Alexander Terekhov <terek...@web.de> wrote:
> Alan Mackenzie wrote: >> In gnu.misc.discuss Alexander Terekhov <terek...@web.de> wrote: >> > Geistiges Eigentum in German is what "intellectual property" in >> > English you silly. >> What an amazing assertion! Do you have any evidence to back that up? > I've already provided the "evidence" silly.
Yes, as you frequently do, but I was thinking more about evidence sensible.
>> "Geistig" does not mean "intellectual", except as a subsidiary >> meaning. Its primary meaning is "spiritual" or "religious", or >> perhaps "mental". As I said, "geistig" is cognate with "ghostly". >> > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geistiges_Eigentum >> > "Unter Geistigem Eigentum (auch intellektuelles Eigentum, engl. >> > intellectual property) werden absolute Rechte an immateriellen >> > Guetern verstanden. >> Yes. "Immateriellen Guetern" = "ghostly goods" or "immaterial goods" or >> "goods lacking any substance". It cannot be "intellectual property". > Intellectual property is a form of intangible property you idiot.
Don't be imbecillic - intangible stuff isn't property.
> Stocks and bonds are other forms of intangible property.
No. Stocks and bonds are tangible - they're things which have a definite , if varying, value and can be readily exchanged for that value in money.
>> > Geistiges Eigentum wird daher auch als Immaterialgueterrecht >> > bezeichnet. Inhaber eines solchen Rechts ist z. B. der Anmelder >> > eines Patents oder der Schoepfer eines urheberrechtlichen Werks. " >> Seems likely. But there's no "property" anywhere in all that. There's >> copyright, which is an abstract right, not anything of any material >> substance. > All the euros on your bank account is your intangible property silly. > No?
No. "in", not "on", and "are", not "is". All the euros in my bank account are a number of metal disks 2.3 cm in diameter, if an inconveniently large number, all perfectly tangible.
Alan Mackenzie <a...@muc.de> writes: > In gnu.misc.discuss Alexander Terekhov <terek...@web.de> wrote: >> All the euros on your bank account is your intangible property silly.
>> No?
> No. "in", not "on", and "are", not "is". All the euros in my bank > account are a number of metal disks 2.3 cm in diameter, if an > inconveniently large number, all perfectly tangible.
Then you would be paying storage fees rather than getting interest. Tangible property is what you place into a personal safety box. The numbers on your account are not tangible, merely directly convertible to tangible property.
People putting their savings into the Icelandic state bank had a bit of a problem when too many tried the conversion at once. The bank ran out of sufficient access to tangible property.
"On July 27, Governor Jeb Bush signed into law a bill that repeals the state's annual intangible personal property tax. ... And now, there is no intangible personal property tax!
Prior to passage of the new measure, Florida imposed a tax on residents for the value of their intangible assets, including stocks, bonds, mutual funds, options, notes receivable, interests in LLCs, stock in corporations and other similar assets."
[...]
> No. "in", not "on", and "are", not "is". All the euros in my bank > account are a number of metal disks 2.3 cm in diameter, if an > inconveniently large number, all perfectly tangible.
In the modern world tangible paper bills and metal coins represent intangible money you retard.
-- http://gng.z505.com/index.htm (GNG is a derecursive recursive derecursion which pwns GNU since it can be infinitely looped as GNGNGNGNG...NGNGNG... and can be said backwards too, whereas GNU cannot.)
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