Hi, my girlfriend MAY CONSIDER getting a scooter for transportation in
the city. Is there any wisdom to this? I suggested a "real bike",
because I've heard scooters were actually more dangerous. She is
"afraid" of shifting gears (though strangely, she drives stick shift in
her car). I guess she thinks it'll be confusing to have all hands and
feet occupied with a bikes various controls. My arguments were

1) Small wheels fit in small holes
2) No power to escape danger
3) Wierd balance due to wierd seating (feet on platform, you aren't
"forced" into a naturally balanced position, like on a bike
4) People with scooters think they are less dangerous, and wear skirts,
suits etc, and a helmet. Not even bothering with leathers. Though the
speeds may be lower, a wipe out is a wipe out and your skin is no less
resistant to asphalt just because you are on a scooter.
5) Less visibility on a scooter than on a bike.

Did I forget something, or am I TOTALLY wrong on this safety issue.
Also, I don't know, but don't you shift gears on a scooter? What is
that left hand lever for then?

Vincerama

PS. Thanks in advance

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True.  It never hurts to pay attention to the road.  :)

Depends on the scooter and the speeds... For in town traffic, you don't need
much motor to accelerate quickly up to 40.

Sit on a scooter.  It's weird to you cause you ride a bike.  The weight is
more on the back wheel because of the "step through" area on a scooter.  The
scooter still has a low center of gravity (often lower than a motorbike) and
rounded tires.  It corners in the same way, it just feels weird.  The
seating position is similar to a cruiser bike, (forward pegs) but with the
motor under your bum.

That's a function of the rider, not the machine.

Bright helmets and jackets and your more visible than most bikes.  (How many
people have black everything for their riding gear?)

A thing to consider is that a lot of scooters are a bit narrower, which
makes it easier to thread traffic (if that's what she's going to be doing.)

Take her to a MSF course.  They ride on little bikes, teach shifting, and
even if she goes with an automatic scooter, she'll be far better off having
taken the course.  And she'll have had a chance to play with a "real bike"
in a fun and safe manner.  It'll give her a better informed decision to
make.

And don't give her grief if she picks a scooter over a bike.  :)  Just help
her have fun riding it safely.  I rode a little 125 in highschool and it was
fine for in-town traffic.  If she's never going to take it on the highway, a
scoot should do fine.

Plus it's a "gateway drug" situation.  If she starts with something she
feels comfortable handling and is easy to deal with, she may be tooling
along on a Goldwing or a Sportster in a few years..... ;)

Scrubbo

I was going to help you sell the idea of why a bike is better than a
scooter.  I learned on a Vespa 90, way back in 1964, at the age of 14.  It
served its purpose, but my main complaints had to do with those small
wheels, and the horrible trailing link front suspension that produced a
wicked dive, under hard braking.  The small wheels are a problem, not only
with chuck holes and angled railroad tracks (almost killed myself with the
latter!), but they lack a lot of the gyroscopic stability we unconciously
take for granted on larger-wheeled bikes.

However, I must agree with Scrubbo, on this one.  The two most important
things are that she be comfortable with her decision.  (Maybe you can help
her steer toward a model of scooter that will have fewer of the problems
mentioned above).  The MSF course is an absolutely excellent suggestion,
and nowadays, I wouldn't even think of encouraging ANYONE to begin riding
on two wheels without it!  Maybe you'll get lucky, and she will see the
wisdom of larger wheels.  If she already drives a stick, the shifting fear
will disappear almost immediately in the class, and hopefully, it will all
be downhill from there.  The one thing you could seriously screw up on
would be to try real hard to convince her of anything!  Let the class do
it for you, naturally.  It shouldn't be hard to get her to see the wisdom
of taking the class.  The statistics should convince her, as well as the
ability to avoid the dreaded DMV riding test (play up the dread a little!)

Good Luck,

-Howard Rogers 650-926-4052

I own several motorcycles but ride the scooters in the city. Not all
scooters have narrow tires. A ZUMA has the same width tires as a Harley. Top
speed is 40mph  but off the line they are fairly quick. Plus a 2 stroker
like a ZUMA can make it up almost any hill. They can be modified to increase
speed. They corner very well. My wife used to ride motorcycles and feels
more comfortable on a ZUMA

T160,FLHTC,F4,KLR650etc. ad nasuem

When I visited Italy a few months ago, I saw an incredible variety of
"scooters."  From what I could tell, the most popular models had substantially
larger diameter wheels that most of the scoots available in the U.S.  I would
guess they were 15" of 16" diameter, but with relatively narrow tires.  Some of
the scooters were downright beautifully styled.  And this from a guy who never
even gave scooters a second glance before.

For the states, however, unless I lived and drove only in a city setting, a
small displacement motorcycle would be preferable to me.  Some of the small
"cruisers" like the 535 Virago or 600 Shadow have really low seats, are very
light and easy to handle, but could still serve as real transportation and are
highway legal.   Don't forget the GS500E, or even a 250 Ninja, both of which
can be found used for less than the cost of a new scooter.

Vince, I don't think you need to be too concerned.

I know someone riding an 80cc Honda scooter in "the city" and she's quite
happy with it.  She travels all the way from 3rd Ave to deep in the
financial district.

That scoot can go 42mph with my big butt and probably faster for her, since
most women are 60lbs lighter than me.

Potholes?  Alert eyes, a firm grip on the bars, and some riding experience
always seem to work.

I'm not so sure about there being less visibility on a scoot.  It seems okay
to me.

Right, most scooter riders don't wear leathers, except for in the bedroom,
but that's another story.

Yes, you don't shift gears on the Japanese scooters.  It's easier than
riding a bicycle.  Your left hand has nothing to do and simply goes along
for the ride.

At the risk of sounding like a commercial...I rent scooters on 6 month
contracts and she/you might like to rent to see if it's something right for
her.  Drop me an email, if you'd like more details.

Scooters are so much fun, easy to park, and easy to toss around on the road
that you just might become a scooter enthusiast, too!

Over and out...Doug, Oakland, Elite 150, d...@juno.com

Scooters are great. I ride a 200cc Vespa. I think it is as safe, if not
safer than
my motorcycle. It is able to travel over 70 miles per hour. It has a zippy
2 stroke
motor that out accelerates the majority of things on the road. It's
lightweight body
and tight turning radius make it perfect for intercity travel. Sitting
upright is comfortable
and allows an excellent view of the road. I don't see how a scooter is less
visible than
me on my motorcycle. My scooter does have gears and a clutch, but it is
very easy to
use. The smaller wheels haven't really been an issue during my 5 years of
ownership.

despite claims to the contrary, I don't see how you can get around the
problems of the donut sized wheels, and the matching brakes.  With the
terrible state of roads these days, I'll take all the rubber I can get.
And I love my 17/18 wheels.  

The scoots do have the advantage of being nearly maintenence free, and
parents seem far more accepting of them (misguided as it may be).  
--
Jason O'Rourke  j...@best.com   www.jor.com
'96 BMW r850R
last dive: June 13th, Pescadero Wash Rocks (Carmel), 46 mins at 64ft max

While I agree with all of the above comments, it should be pointed out that
all of us stay upright on our cycles only because of gyroscopic forces
induce by our spinning wheels.  In this regard, the more the mass of the
wheel is distributed from the axle, the greater the force.  If a motorcycle
becomes airborne (Evel Knevle - or - pothole) it maintains its attitude
merely from the gyroscpic effect, and not the balancing skill of the rider.

In the above regard, naturally a motorcycle with a big wheel(s)  is more
resistant to being overturned than the same cycle with small wheels.  OTOH,
I rode a scooter 35 years ago throughout S.F. bay area, crossed the Bay
Bridge (legal at the time if last ramp on and first ramp off) daily to CAl
Berkeley, and had no problems.  I will say tha in heavy winds such as
emerging from alongside a semi in windy conditions, the scooter was highly
unstable.  Under similar conditions my motorcycle slightly wobbles.

Then again, most of my riding was at 25 m.p.h. or so.

Ivan, amatuer from California

On 15 Jun 1999 17:24:29 -0700, j...@best.com (Jason O'Rourke) wrote:

You gotta try a *modern* scooter. The Italjet I rode with the
centerhub steering handled bumps and potholes with aplomb. No worries.

 It also has brakes that will stop you on a dime. That's DUAL discs
mind you!!

Now some cheezy Razz 50 or some such? Well, I dunno about
those.

Remember that while scooters are not very common over here,
they are rampant in Europe. And believe me, city roads over there
are only marginally better than here from what I've seen.

Check em out -

http://www.italjet.co.uk/

--
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"It's such a fine line between stupid and...And clever."
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                Team Iguana Racing (Ret!)
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Hmmm...from the responses I've read, it seems I was wrong about
scooters! I just remember seeing two people on a (small) scooter zig-
zagging up California street trying to get up the hill. They made it,
but it didn't seem very safe looking.

I guess the trick is to get at least a 150 or 250 scooter.

Me, I'll stick with my bike, I guess I just wanted my girlfriend to
ride a bike so we can ride together, though in the city, I don't think
either bike or scooter is more convenient or inconvenient than the
other, except that you don't have to fuel the scooter as often.

It seems to be though that scooter riders are a little more relaxed
about safety gear (I guess it's OK if you don't ride the highways).
Most people I see wear the 3/4 face helmets, no gloves, high
heels/dress shoes and skirts/suits.

I'll look into them more before dismissing them.

Any negative opinions??

Vincerama

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