>> What do the British and American readers think of an expression that
>> is nearly as pervasive in Ireland as the rain: "I am delighted to
>> hear that"?

>The exaggeration of your good feelings can be a way of conveying
>cordiality to someone you don't know well.  In a reply last month to
>an email from the producer of a CBC radio program, sent to tell me
>that my entry to one of their contests had been accepted for use, I
>began "Of course I'm delighted," and went on to explain why I was also
>surprised.

>>On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 14:24:42 -0000, "Richard Chambers"
>><richard.chambers7_NoSp...@ntlworld.net> wrote:

>>>Nick wrote

>>>> Stan Brown <the_stan_br...@fastmail.fm> writes:

>>>>> Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:25:03 +1100 from Peter Moylan
>>>>> <pe...@pmoylan.org.not.china>:
>>>>>> I have a similar reaction to the American "You're welcome", which you
>>>>>> get even when you're obviously not welcome. Initially I thought it was a
>>>>>> charming thing to say. After about the thousandth time I was starting to
>>>>>> associate it with hypocrisy.

>>>>> Conventional expressions like "you're welcome" are not subject to
>>>>> charges of hypocrisy because they're not meant to be evaluated
>>>>> literally.  Or would you consider someone a hypocrite who, on being
>>>>> introduced to you, says "how do you do"?  (*)  "You're welcome" is
>>>>> just something we say in response to "thank you".

>>>>> Objecting to conventional phrases because they're not literally true
>>>>> is a phase many children go through, but adults understand that
>>>>> they're just social lubricants with no real meaning beyond "we are
>>>>> members of the same [ill-defined] group with the same customs."

>>>> They are also one of the things that differ between cultures that speak
>>>> the same languages.  It's very noticeable how American's use much more
>>>> friendly terms to strangers in commercial transactions, but a lot fewer
>>>> "please"s and "thank you"s than the British.  Each are being equally
>>>> polite - just using different ways to do it, but this can be
>>>> disconcerting and confusing.

>>>I was once very pleasantly surprised by this aspect of US American culture
>>>and manners. I was on holiday in Ireland with my wife, and we decided to pay
>>>£30 a head for tickets for a "Medieval Banquet" in a castle near where we
>>>had bed and breakfasted.

>>>Typical Brits (Susan and myself):-  Stand around, as close as possible to
>>>one of the walls (for social protection from all the people we do not know),
>>>survey the other guests as they arrive, and (in many cases) take an instant
>>>dislike to them. Think that it had been a mistake to spend £60 on such an
>>>evening, with such hateful guests.

>>>Typical Americans:-  Stride confidently into the room, walk straight up to
>>>us, look us in the eye, and shake hands with us. "Hi, I'm Bill and this is
>>>Joyce, my wife. We're from Arizona!".

>>>The evening was not a total waste of time after all. Why don't the Brits do
>>>that? Why don't I do that? A question I simply cannot answer. I would
>>>certainly like to do things that way, but I can't. I'm British.

>>Spending much of one's working life around Americans tends to have
>>some of their attitude rub off and make one a little more gregarious
>>even if it is learned behaviour rather than innate.  I was like you
>>until 1973, then I moved abroad to live and work in a community whose
>>English-speaking members were mainly American.  They are a sociable
>>people, especially when they, too, are expatriates.

>>So, incidentally, are the Irish, who I found to be miserable buggers
>>in their own country, but an absolute hoot abroad.

>The rain in Ireland gets the natives down. When away from it, they are
>happy, so they tell me.

> The rain in Ireland gets the natives down. When away from it, they are
> happy, so they tell me.

>> The rain in Ireland gets the natives down. When away from it, they are
>> happy, so they tell me.
> My first ever experience of Ireland was as my plane was landing at
> Dublin airport. The tarmac was covered with huge puddles. The sky was a
> mass of gloomy grey clouds.
> My seat-mate looked out the window and said "It's not raining!" with an
> air of great surprise.

> > One of many things that surprised me on my only visit to the US was
> > how reticent the people we met were.  Nobody was rude to us - in
> > fact people were charming and polite, and rather more formal than
> > in the UK (we've done use of 'Sir' and 'Ma'am' previously), but in
> > three weeks we only had about two conversations with strangers.
> > There's also a culture clash over social language; to me 'how are
> > you' is only used with someone you've met previously, but it does
> > require a little information as an answer, not just a formula;
> > something like:

> > 'How are you?'
> > 'Oh not too bad - glad the Sun's shining today!'

> > This sort of thing got me iffy looks ('nutter alert!') in San
> > Franscisco, and after a couple of days I just said 'fine'.

> Within hours of landing in Chicago recently, I was greeted in a shop
> by "How are you today?" to which I automatically replied "I'm good,
> thank you", something I would never usually say. Realising what I'd
> said, I muttered to myself "Oh Lord, I'm speaking American already."
> My friends found this very amusing.

> >Stan Brown <the_stan_br...@fastmail.fm> writes:

> > > Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:25:03 +1100 from Peter Moylan
> > > <pe...@pmoylan.org.not.china>:
> > > > I have a similar reaction to the American "You're welcome",
> > > > which you get even when you're obviously not welcome. Initially
> > > > I thought it was a charming thing to say. After about the
> > > > thousandth time I was starting to associate it with hypocrisy.

> > > Conventional expressions like "you're welcome" are not subject to
> > > charges of hypocrisy because they're not meant to be evaluated
> > > literally.  Or would you consider someone a hypocrite who, on
> > > being introduced to you, says "how do you do"?  (*)  "You're
> > > welcome" is just something we say in response to "thank you".

> > > Objecting to conventional phrases because they're not literally
> > > true is a phase many children go through, but adults understand
> > > that they're just social lubricants with no real meaning beyond
> > > "we are members of the same [ill-defined] group with the same
> > > customs."

> > They are also one of the things that differ between cultures that
> > speak the same languages.  It's very noticeable how American's use
> > much more friendly terms to strangers in commercial transactions,
> > but a lot fewer "please"s and "thank you"s than the British.  Each
> > are being equally polite - just using different ways to do it, but
> > this can be disconcerting and confusing.

> I was once very pleasantly surprised by this aspect of US American
> culture and manners. I was on holiday in Ireland with my wife, and we
> decided to pay #30 a head for tickets for a "Medieval Banquet" in a
> castle near where we had bed and breakfasted.

> Typical Brits (Susan and myself):-  Stand around, as close as
> possible to one of the walls (for social protection from all the
> people we do not know), survey the other guests as they arrive, and
> (in many cases) take an instant dislike to them. Think that it had
> been a mistake to spend #60 on such an evening, with such hateful
> guests.

> Typical Americans:-  Stride confidently into the room, walk straight
> up to us, look us in the eye, and shake hands with us. "Hi, I'm Bill
> and this is Joyce, my wife. We're from Arizona!".

> The evening was not a total waste of time after all. Why don't the
> Brits do that? Why don't I do that? A question I simply cannot
> answer. I would certainly like to do things that way, but I can't.
> I'm British.

> > Typical Brits (Susan and myself):-  Stand around, as close as
> > possible to one of the walls (for social protection from all the
> > people we do not know), survey the other guests as they arrive, and
> > (in many cases) take an instant dislike to them. Think that it had
> > been a mistake to spend £60 on such an evening, with such hateful
> > guests.

> > Typical Americans:-  Stride confidently into the room, walk
> > straight up to us, look us in the eye, and shake hands with us.
> > "Hi, I'm Bill and this is Joyce, my wife. We're from Arizona!".

> > The evening was not a total waste of time after all. Why don't the
> > Brits do that? Why don't I do that? A question I simply cannot
> > answer. I would certainly like to do things that way, but I can't.
> > I'm British.

> When I travel outside of this country, I am not one of those puppy dog
> Americans who approaches every stranger with a wag of the tail and
> tries to initiate a conversation.  However, like Bill, I would
> introduce myself in a similar situation to what you describe.

> What follows would be dependent on the reaction of the other people.
> Some people are effective in conveying a lack of interest in further
> interaction by their body language and lack of eye contact.  Even if
> the other party responds with their introductory information, it's
> easy to sense their comfort level with further idle chat with a
> stranger.

> I don't recall ever being rebuffed in the UK, and certainly not coldly
> rebuffed.  I have had the feeling in train compartments and other
> situations that the other party is not looking forward to being
> glad-handed.  So I don't.

> The major difference I see between Brits and Yanks in situations like
> this is that Yanks are curious and Brits are either not curious or are
> unwilling to voice their curiosity.  Yanks ask questions.  Brits
> comment on impersonal subjects.  Exceptions, of course.

> >The rain in Ireland gets the natives down. When away from it, they are
> >happy, so they tell me.

> That could be it.  My only visits to Ireland, north and south, were
> during the troubles a few decades ago, and a British English accent
> seemed to be viewed with suspicion in Dublin and Belfast and the stops
> along the motorway that connects them.

>> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:32:12 +0000, Chuck Riggs
>> <chri...@eircom.net> wrote:

>>> The rain in Ireland gets the natives down. When away from it,
>>> they are happy, so they tell me.
>> That could be it.  My only visits to Ireland, north and south, were
>>  during the troubles a few decades ago, and a British English
>> accent seemed to be viewed with suspicion in Dublin and Belfast and
>> the stops along the motorway that connects them.

> I've employed my undiluted BrE accent here without observing anything
>  like that for 44 years now.  I occasionally get asked what part of
> England I am from but that is the extent of any reaction.

> I think you're right, we're brought up to believe it's rude to ask too
> many questions.  Because I work as an EFL it's in my blood to ask

>>> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:32:12 +0000, Chuck Riggs
>>> <chri...@eircom.net> wrote:

>>>> The rain in Ireland gets the natives down. When away from it,
>>>> they are happy, so they tell me.
>>> That could be it.  My only visits to Ireland, north and south, were
>>>  during the troubles a few decades ago, and a British English
>>> accent seemed to be viewed with suspicion in Dublin and Belfast and
>>> the stops along the motorway that connects them.

>> I've employed my undiluted BrE accent here without observing anything
>>  like that for 44 years now.  I occasionally get asked what part of
>> England I am from but that is the extent of any reaction.

>I've heard it said of people in the Republic that they love the English
>but hate their politics. With the Unionists in the North it's vice versa.

>> Django Cat wrote:

>> > One of many things that surprised me on my only visit to the US was
>> > how reticent the people we met were.  Nobody was rude to us - in
>> > fact people were charming and polite, and rather more formal than
>> > in the UK (we've done use of 'Sir' and 'Ma'am' previously), but in
>> > three weeks we only had about two conversations with strangers.
>> > There's also a culture clash over social language; to me 'how are
>> > you' is only used with someone you've met previously, but it does
>> > require a little information as an answer, not just a formula;
>> > something like:

>> > 'How are you?'
>> > 'Oh not too bad - glad the Sun's shining today!'

>> > This sort of thing got me iffy looks ('nutter alert!') in San
>> > Franscisco, and after a couple of days I just said 'fine'.

>> Within hours of landing in Chicago recently, I was greeted in a shop
>> by "How are you today?" to which I automatically replied "I'm good,
>> thank you", something I would never usually say. Realising what I'd
>> said, I muttered to myself "Oh Lord, I'm speaking American already."
>> My friends found this very amusing.

>Ah, but that "I'm good" is more and more common in BrE, especially on
>Radio 1.  I'm surprised we haven't had Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells on
>here about it (or not that I've noticed).

>>On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 22:16:44 +0000, Robin Bignall
>><docro...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>>>On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 14:24:42 -0000, "Richard Chambers"
>>><richard.chambers7_NoSp...@ntlworld.net> wrote:

>>>>Nick wrote

>>>>> Stan Brown <the_stan_br...@fastmail.fm> writes:

>>>>>> Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:25:03 +1100 from Peter Moylan
>>>>>> <pe...@pmoylan.org.not.china>:
>>>>>>> I have a similar reaction to the American "You're welcome", which you
>>>>>>> get even when you're obviously not welcome. Initially I thought it was a
>>>>>>> charming thing to say. After about the thousandth time I was starting to
>>>>>>> associate it with hypocrisy.

>>>>>> Conventional expressions like "you're welcome" are not subject to
>>>>>> charges of hypocrisy because they're not meant to be evaluated
>>>>>> literally.  Or would you consider someone a hypocrite who, on being
>>>>>> introduced to you, says "how do you do"?  (*)  "You're welcome" is
>>>>>> just something we say in response to "thank you".

>>>>>> Objecting to conventional phrases because they're not literally true
>>>>>> is a phase many children go through, but adults understand that
>>>>>> they're just social lubricants with no real meaning beyond "we are
>>>>>> members of the same [ill-defined] group with the same customs."

>>>>> They are also one of the things that differ between cultures that speak
>>>>> the same languages.  It's very noticeable how American's use much more
>>>>> friendly terms to strangers in commercial transactions, but a lot fewer
>>>>> "please"s and "thank you"s than the British.  Each are being equally
>>>>> polite - just using different ways to do it, but this can be
>>>>> disconcerting and confusing.

>>>>I was once very pleasantly surprised by this aspect of US American culture
>>>>and manners. I was on holiday in Ireland with my wife, and we decided to pay
>>>>£30 a head for tickets for a "Medieval Banquet" in a castle near where we
>>>>had bed and breakfasted.

>>>>Typical Brits (Susan and myself):-  Stand around, as close as possible to
>>>>one of the walls (for social protection from all the people we do not know),
>>>>survey the other guests as they arrive, and (in many cases) take an instant
>>>>dislike to them. Think that it had been a mistake to spend £60 on such an
>>>>evening, with such hateful guests.

>>>>Typical Americans:-  Stride confidently into the room, walk straight up to
>>>>us, look us in the eye, and shake hands with us. "Hi, I'm Bill and this is
>>>>Joyce, my wife. We're from Arizona!".

>>>>The evening was not a total waste of time after all. Why don't the Brits do
>>>>that? Why don't I do that? A question I simply cannot answer. I would
>>>>certainly like to do things that way, but I can't. I'm British.

>>>Spending much of one's working life around Americans tends to have
>>>some of their attitude rub off and make one a little more gregarious
>>>even if it is learned behaviour rather than innate.  I was like you
>>>until 1973, then I moved abroad to live and work in a community whose
>>>English-speaking members were mainly American.  They are a sociable
>>>people, especially when they, too, are expatriates.

>>>So, incidentally, are the Irish, who I found to be miserable buggers
>>>in their own country, but an absolute hoot abroad.

>>The rain in Ireland gets the natives down. When away from it, they are
>>happy, so they tell me.

>That could be it.  My only visits to Ireland, north and south, were
>during the troubles a few decades ago, and a British English accent
>seemed to be viewed with suspicion in Dublin and Belfast and the stops
>along the motorway that connects them.

>> Nick wrote

>> >Stan Brown <the_stan_br...@fastmail.fm> writes:

>> > > Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:25:03 +1100 from Peter Moylan
>> > > <pe...@pmoylan.org.not.china>:
>> > > > I have a similar reaction to the American "You're welcome",
>> > > > which you get even when you're obviously not welcome. Initially
>> > > > I thought it was a charming thing to say. After about the
>> > > > thousandth time I was starting to associate it with hypocrisy.

>> > > Conventional expressions like "you're welcome" are not subject to
>> > > charges of hypocrisy because they're not meant to be evaluated
>> > > literally.  Or would you consider someone a hypocrite who, on
>> > > being introduced to you, says "how do you do"?  (*)  "You're
>> > > welcome" is just something we say in response to "thank you".

>> > > Objecting to conventional phrases because they're not literally
>> > > true is a phase many children go through, but adults understand
>> > > that they're just social lubricants with no real meaning beyond
>> > > "we are members of the same [ill-defined] group with the same
>> > > customs."

>> > They are also one of the things that differ between cultures that
>> > speak the same languages.  It's very noticeable how American's use
>> > much more friendly terms to strangers in commercial transactions,
>> > but a lot fewer "please"s and "thank you"s than the British.  Each
>> > are being equally polite - just using different ways to do it, but
>> > this can be disconcerting and confusing.

>> I was once very pleasantly surprised by this aspect of US American
>> culture and manners. I was on holiday in Ireland with my wife, and we
>> decided to pay #30 a head for tickets for a "Medieval Banquet" in a
>> castle near where we had bed and breakfasted.

>> Typical Brits (Susan and myself):-  Stand around, as close as
>> possible to one of the walls (for social protection from all the
>> people we do not know), survey the other guests as they arrive, and
>> (in many cases) take an instant dislike to them. Think that it had
>> been a mistake to spend #60 on such an evening, with such hateful
>> guests.

>> Typical Americans:-  Stride confidently into the room, walk straight
>> up to us, look us in the eye, and shake hands with us. "Hi, I'm Bill
>> and this is Joyce, my wife. We're from Arizona!".

>> The evening was not a total waste of time after all. Why don't the
>> Brits do that? Why don't I do that? A question I simply cannot
>> answer. I would certainly like to do things that way, but I can't.
>> I'm British.

>Come on Richard, stop at a chuck wagon, grab a mug of tea, and have a
>chat with the regulars.  You can do it!

>>On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 06:37:40 -0800 (PST), Arcadian Rises
>><Arcadianri...@aol.com> wrote:

>>>On Nov 6, 6:25?pm, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.not.china> wrote:
>>>> Chuck Riggs wrote:
>>>> > What do the British and American readers think of an expression that
>>>> > is nearly as pervasive in Ireland as the rain: "I am delighted to hear
>>>> > that"?

>>>> I am delighted to hear it when I think it's an expression of genuine
>>>> delight, but I think the impact of such expressions can be ruined by
>>>> over-use.

>>>If you think "delighted" is overused, try "happy", a much stronger
>>>word that should mean more than just a frame of mind; because this is
>>>the version I hear more often in my neck of the woods (New York area):
>>>"I'm happy to hear that".

>>How is happy stronger than delighted? Let me see: "Happy birthday".
>>Ho-hum. "I am happy today." That's nice. But with "I am delighted to
>>see you", I expect an orgasm or two, the word is so strong.

>It wasn't always thus...there was a time when "delight" just meant a feeling
>pleasant enough that you couldn't help grinning....

>I blame the Starland Vocal Band....r

> > Richard Chambers wrote:

> >> Nick wrote

> >> >Stan Brown <the_stan_br...@fastmail.fm> writes:

> >> > > Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:25:03 +1100 from Peter Moylan
> >> > > <pe...@pmoylan.org.not.china>:
> >> > > > I have a similar reaction to the American "You're welcome",
> >> > > > which you get even when you're obviously not welcome.
> Initially >> > > > I thought it was a charming thing to say. After
> about the >> > > > thousandth time I was starting to associate it
> with hypocrisy.  >> > >
> >> > > Conventional expressions like "you're welcome" are not subject
> to >> > > charges of hypocrisy because they're not meant to be
> evaluated >> > > literally.  Or would you consider someone a
> hypocrite who, on >> > > being introduced to you, says "how do you
> do"?  (*)  "You're >> > > welcome" is just something we say in
> response to "thank you".  >> > >
> >> > > Objecting to conventional phrases because they're not literally
> >> > > true is a phase many children go through, but adults understand
> >> > > that they're just social lubricants with no real meaning beyond
> >> > > "we are members of the same [ill-defined] group with the same
> >> > > customs."

> >> > They are also one of the things that differ between cultures that
> >> > speak the same languages.  It's very noticeable how American's
> use >> > much more friendly terms to strangers in commercial
> transactions, >> > but a lot fewer "please"s and "thank you"s than
> the British.  Each >> > are being equally polite - just using
> different ways to do it, but >> > this can be disconcerting and
> confusing.  >>
> >> I was once very pleasantly surprised by this aspect of US American
> >> culture and manners. I was on holiday in Ireland with my wife, and
> we >> decided to pay #30 a head for tickets for a "Medieval Banquet"
> in a >> castle near where we had bed and breakfasted.

> >> Typical Brits (Susan and myself):-  Stand around, as close as
> >> possible to one of the walls (for social protection from all the
> >> people we do not know), survey the other guests as they arrive, and
> >> (in many cases) take an instant dislike to them. Think that it had
> >> been a mistake to spend #60 on such an evening, with such hateful
> >> guests.

> >> Typical Americans:-  Stride confidently into the room, walk
> straight >> up to us, look us in the eye, and shake hands with us.
> "Hi, I'm Bill >> and this is Joyce, my wife. We're from Arizona!".

> >> The evening was not a total waste of time after all. Why don't the
> >> Brits do that? Why don't I do that? A question I simply cannot
> >> answer. I would certainly like to do things that way, but I can't.
> >> I'm British.

> > Come on Richard, stop at a chuck wagon, grab a mug of tea, and have
> > a chat with the regulars.  You can do it!

> ObAUE: "a mug of tea"?

> Frequently, Chuck. In all sorts of ways.

> I have just sent two work-connected emails which used precisely the
> expression you cite. In both cases I was sincerely delighted by news
> received but there are occasions when I might use the expression ironically.

> This sort of thing got me iffy looks ('nutter alert!') in San
> Franscisco, and after a couple of days I just said 'fine'.

> I think you're right, we're brought up to believe it's rude to ask
> too many questions.  Because I work as an EFL it's in my blood to
> ask people questions because I want to get students talking.  This
> sometimes gets me into trouble in social situations.

> DC

> I settled, after much deliberation, on "distressed". I really wanted a
> word that connoted "physically damaged", rather than "emotionally
> dissatisfied".

> Can anyone suggest a better word? In context:

> "I am distressed that neither Brandon nor I were given a chance to
> review the nomenclature earlier. It would be greatly appreciated if
> the SSN and SAP programmers could be a regular part of the process."

>> 'How are you?'
>> 'Oh not too bad - glad the Sun's shining today!'

>> This sort of thing got me iffy looks ('nutter alert!') in San
>> Franscisco, and after a couple of days I just said 'fine'.

> Oh, but that's simply because the sun shines virtually EVERY day in
> San Francisco. It's like saying "I'm glad the air pressure is about
> one atmosphere today!" or "I'm glad the gravity is keeping me from
> floating away today!" Nutter: yes. Step away.

> Jim Deutch (JimboCat)

>>> 'How are you?'
>>> 'Oh not too bad - glad the Sun's shining today!'

>>> This sort of thing got me iffy looks ('nutter alert!') in San
>>> Franscisco, and after a couple of days I just said 'fine'.

>> Oh, but that's simply because the sun shines virtually EVERY day in San
>> Francisco. It's like saying "I'm glad the air pressure is about one
>> atmosphere today!" or "I'm glad the gravity is keeping me from floating
>> away today!" Nutter: yes. Step away.

>> Jim Deutch (JimboCat)

> Which San Francisco /is/ that?

>JimboCat wrote:

>> Oh, but that's simply because the sun shines virtually EVERY day in
>> San Francisco. It's like saying "I'm glad the air pressure is about
>> one atmosphere today!" or "I'm glad the gravity is keeping me from
>> floating away today!" Nutter: yes. Step away.

>Which San Francisco /is/ that?