- -- Key ID 0x09723C12, jenst...@tingleff.org Analogue filtering / 5GHz RLAN / Mandriva Linux / odds and ends http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/ +44 1223 829 985 "I said 'this can't be me, must be my double'" L Cohen -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
That's tired old news, and it was the traitors and apostates that were responsible. When Mr David Miscavige found out, he ordered all the attacks on Bob Minton to stop and quickly resolved his differences with the Church. Mr Minton has not made any complaints about Scientology since that day.
It almost writes itself doesn't it...
-- Patterson's Law: all public Internet discussions about Scientology will include a post claiming that all religions are equally bad http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/stolgy_0.htm
> That's tired old news, and it was the traitors and apostates that were > responsible. When Mr David Miscavige found out, he ordered all the attacks > on Bob Minton to stop and quickly resolved his differences with the > Church. Mr Minton has not made any complaints about Scientology since that > day.
Surely you jest. Minton was not only ordered to stop, but to help $CN destroy critics and make the Lisa wrongful death suit "go away". Part of Minton's "deal" with the devil seems to have been that he, Stacy Brooks and Mark Bunker be removed from $CN's Religious Freedon Watch.
I wish Rinder and Rathbun would be more forthcoming with what happened, but since it appears both they and Minton did some illegal stuff, it is not surprising that they aren't. But the SPTimes laid out the facts, which "some" have been denying for years.
What did Rinder mean by this?
Quote:
"Rinder, who once described Minton's actions as "despicable and disgusting," now considers him a friend." End of Quote
> It almost writes itself doesn't it...
Gee, they left out Arnie Lerma's version of the story.
> -- > Patterson's Law: all public Internet discussions > about Scientology will include a post claiming that > all religions are equally badhttp://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/stolgy_0.htm
> That's tired old news, and it was the traitors and apostates that were > responsible. When Mr David Miscavige found out, he ordered all the attacks > on Bob Minton to stop and quickly resolved his differences with the > Church. Mr Minton has not made any complaints about Scientology since that > day.
> It almost writes itself doesn't it...
> -- > Patterson's Law: all public Internet discussions > about Scientology will include a post claiming that > all religions are equally badhttp://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/stolgy_0.htm
If it's any new column that will get others in agreement with Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder, it is this one. To the extreme - repeating your comment above:
"> That's tired old news, and it was the traitors and apostates "
I think Marty Rathbun used the term, "criminality." on his blog in the last month.. Bob Minton will always be the cult's "engram" to be rid of. The past life of the Lisa McPherson Trust fallls heavily under the category of "Fair game" which (iirc) has not been addressed in this article.
Nor has any subject been in real depth where Marty and Mike (R& R) have been quoted in this ongoing series. Different from the "Chased by the Cult" article of the other day where you could get a grasp on the information. There were several accounts from people.
Comments will be interesting, as reporting like this stirs up ill feelings. Of course! Maybe they want others to partake in the word slappy show, proving that leaving out the facts draws people to throw wild allegations.
The cult knows that this topic brings on the Machiavellian show.. Did this article intend to stir this up, or does it turn on the auto pilot fair game sequence? That surely takes the pressure off of Marty & Mike who still have not talked about "follow the money." If they want it, they have to create a new spot on the wall to focus attention don't they?
> > That's tired old news, and it was the traitors and apostates that were > > responsible. When Mr David Miscavige found out, he ordered all the attacks > > on Bob Minton to stop and quickly resolved his differences with the > > Church. Mr Minton has not made any complaints about Scientology since that > > day.
> Surely you jest.
I do, but would you be surprised if Tommy says something similar? In the state he is in, Miscavige might well 'flip' and start attacking Minton again simply because the StP Times has written a new article about him.
> I wish Rinder and Rathbun would be more forthcoming with what > happened
Patience! It will all come out eventually, and the full gory details aren't going to affect public opinion either way. Right now they are playing their own game, and doing quite well IMO.
> What did Rinder mean by this? > "Rinder, who once described Minton's actions as "despicable and > disgusting," now considers him a friend."
That he's apologised to him? Goodness knows. IIRC it was Rathbun, not Rinder, who arranged the settlement with Minton. They were perhaps playing 'good cop, bad cop' at the time.
>> That's tired old news, and it was the traitors and apostates that >> were responsible. When Mr David Miscavige found out, he ordered all >> the attacks on Bob Minton to stop and quickly resolved his >> differences with the Church. Mr Minton has not made any complaints >> about Scientology since that day.
> Surely you jest. Minton was not only ordered to stop, but to help > $CN destroy critics and make the Lisa wrongful death suit "go away". > Part of Minton's "deal" with the devil seems to have been that he, > Stacy Brooks and Mark Bunker be removed from $CN's Religious Freedon > Watch.
> I wish Rinder and Rathbun would be more forthcoming with what > happened, but since it appears both they and Minton did some illegal > stuff, it is not surprising that they aren't. But the SPTimes laid > out the facts, which "some" have been denying for years.
> What did Rinder mean by this?
> Quote:
> "Rinder, who once described Minton's actions as "despicable and > disgusting," > now considers him a friend." End of Quote
The one common denominator among Minton's "friends" is that rec'd money from him.
> Gee, they left out Arnie Lerma's version of the story.
> Tigger
>> -- >> Patterson's Law: all public Internet discussions >> about Scientology will include a post claiming that >> all religions are equally >> badhttp://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/stolgy_0.htm
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:52:19 -0000, Hartley Patterson
<hptt...@daisy.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: >That he's apologised to him? Goodness knows. IIRC it was Rathbun, not >Rinder, who arranged the settlement with Minton. They were perhaps playing >'good cop, bad cop' at the time.
Their meeting April 6 at Pope's office was a turning point. It was so important, Rinder -- a top Scientology official who handles the church's legal and public affairs -- summoned his lawyer, Yingling, from Paris, where she was on other business
The church long had suspected wrongdoing in the McPherson case. During the meeting, Rinder told Minton, "I really want you to think seriously about telling the truth in what has happened in this case," Minton said.
Minton excused himself. Outside, he decided it was time to come clean. There were lies told in the case, according to Minton. He said he feared Scientology would uncover those lies in court and he would be sent to jail for perjury.
He became so distressed, he gagged in the bushes.
Recalling the negotiation, Minton said: "It wasn't something I wanted to do. I wasn't looking to start trusting the Church of Scientology and I especially wasn't looking to trust Mike Rinder."
Back inside, he began to reveal to Rinder a series of lies he said he had told under oath at Dandar's direction.
Yingling said she was shocked to hear Minton's account of what had been happening in the case. The Times sought comment from Rinder for this story, but he did not return repeated calls. Shaw, speaking for the church, has said Scientologists are pleased the truth finally is coming to light.
Now the church is using Minton's testimony to support an effort to get the lawsuit dismissed. It has left Dandar fighting not only for the McPherson case but for his own reputation. Dandar has denied all of Minton's accusations, saying Minton's lies started after he met with Scientology. Testimony before Schaeffer is to resume this week. "They are committing a charade on the court," Dandar said. "They have Minton coming in as if he were this pitiful lying witness who wanted to come clean. He was coming in claiming to be a perjurer because he was told to do that."
On Nov 5, 2:13 am, "Patty Pieniadz" <ppieni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > "Rinder, who once described Minton's actions as "despicable and > > disgusting," > > now considers him a friend." End of Quote
> The one common denominator among Minton's "friends" is that rec'd > money from him.
> Makes me wonder if Rinder is part of that circle.
Never even thought of that, but now that you mention. I have been thinking "settlement" in there somewhere with Rinder, because while they have used old clips of him from the cult, why is he not appearing on TV or video, or being interviewed, other than in the print media? I'm think that is a stipulation of a settlement, whether it is a settlement with the cult, or with someone else I can't imagine.
My initial reaction to reading (a few years after it happened, since I'm new to following this) that Rinder and Rathbun were no longer in the cult, I assumed the cult would have had to have paid them off to gag them. Because they knew too much. The stipulation would be that neither side mentioning there ever being a settlement, however agreeing that certain things would never be mentioned. However, now, that doesn't necessarily seem all that likely. The cult thinks they, with their billions, are impervious, and they know that certain secrets Rathbun or Rinder could reveal, would incriminate themselves too much.
Also, while on the Minton subject, I remember reading somewhere, although this could be just a rumor -- but it does make some sense when you consider how wacky Scientology is -- that Minton snapped when he found that PIs were following his daughter(s). Scientology really started to freak him out and he wanted out of the whole business.
Then again, it makes sense that they may have just found some irregularity in the way he made his millions, that would have either opened a can of worms, or threatened to destroy his fortune.
I think what Minton did, using a generous part of his fortune to fight the cult, help some of the victims who were willing to speak out, and establish the LM trust, was heroic. It is like Paulette Cooper. When Scientology faces someone, they think has the potential to do them very serious harm, cost them a huge amount of money, in a short amount of time, they really focus on finding that person's ruin, and going about it in an insidious way.
The "insidious" part is more of what I'm looking forward to hearing, from Rinder and Rathbun.
Of all the articles in the St. Pete Times, this recent one on Minton was poorly written and confusing. I had trouble following it, and had to keep reading certain passages more than once. But, well, at least it is out there.
> On Nov 5, 2:13 am, "Patty Pieniadz" <ppieni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > "Rinder, who once described Minton's actions as "despicable and > > > disgusting," > > > now considers him a friend." End of Quote
> > The one common denominator among Minton's "friends" is that rec'd > > money from him.
> > Makes me wonder if Rinder is part of that circle.
> Never even thought of that, but now that you mention. I have been > thinking "settlement" in there somewhere with Rinder, because while > they have used old clips of him from the cult, why is he not appearing > on TV or video, or being interviewed, other than in the print media? > I'm think that is a stipulation of a settlement, whether it is a > settlement with the cult, or with someone else I can't imagine.
> My initial reaction to reading (a few years after it happened, since > I'm new to following this) that Rinder and Rathbun were no longer in > the cult, I assumed the cult would have had to have paid them off to > gag them. Because they knew too much. The stipulation would be that > neither side mentioning there ever being a settlement, however > agreeing that certain things would never be mentioned. However, now, > that doesn't necessarily seem all that likely. The cult thinks they, > with their billions, are impervious, and they know that certain > secrets Rathbun or Rinder could reveal, would incriminate themselves > too much.
> Also, while on the Minton subject, I remember reading somewhere, > although this could be just a rumor -- but it does make some sense > when you consider how wacky Scientology is -- that Minton snapped when > he found that PIs were following his daughter(s). Scientology really > started to freak him out and he wanted out of the whole business.
> Then again, it makes sense that they may have just found some > irregularity in the way he made his millions, that would have either > opened a can of worms, or threatened to destroy his fortune.
The main irregularity was that he had half a million anonymously transferred to thee LMT from a secret European bank account and tried to pawn it off as a donation from someone else. Apparently that was set up to avoid paying taxes (or hide the fact that they hadn't been paid). As I heard, the money was withdrawn by then-LMT attorney John Merrett, and then wired to the US by Andreas Helmut-Lund.
Whether Merrett was just inept or crooked remains to be seen. My guess is the latter.
> I think what Minton did, using a generous part of his fortune to fight > the cult, help some of the victims who were willing to speak out, and > establish the LM trust, was heroic. It is like Paulette Cooper. When > Scientology faces someone, they think has the potential to do them > very serious harm, cost them a huge amount of money, in a short amount > of time, they really focus on finding that person's ruin, and going > about it in an insidious way.
> The "insidious" part is more of what I'm looking forward to hearing, > from Rinder and Rathbun.
> Of all the articles in the St. Pete Times, this recent one on Minton > was poorly written and confusing. I had trouble following it, and had > to keep reading certain passages more than once. But, well, at least > it is out there.
> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:52:19 -0000, Hartley Patterson > <hptt...@daisy.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> >That he's apologised to him? Goodness knows. IIRC it was Rathbun, not > >Rinder, who arranged the settlement with Minton. They were perhaps playing > >'good cop, bad cop' at the time.
> I have been > thinking "settlement" in there somewhere with Rinder, because while > they have used old clips of him from the cult, why is he not appearing > on TV or video, or being interviewed, other than in the print media?
You don't fire off all your ammunition at once unless it's really going to obliterate your opponent atomic bomb style. We wish!
What has been working?
Not the big >9000 Anonymous protest in February 2008, but the steady monthly push against the Orgs and the raids in between that followed. Not the big articles in newspapers, not the big exposes on TV, not Panorama saying "hey we haven't done Scientology for a while", but the drip drip of joking and degrading everywhere. And now it's the StP Times getting stuck in and indicating that they will not stop until they get a result.
So I think Rinder is playing it right, reserving some of his firepower for a moment when things are quiet. So far, that moment has not arrived!
> My initial reaction to reading (a few years after it happened, since > I'm new to following this) that Rinder and Rathbun were no longer in > the cult, I assumed the cult would have had to have paid them off to > gag them. Because they knew too much.
Miscavige still thinks his cult is too scary and powerful to have to bribe anyone. The agreements, actual or implied, have always been "if you say nothing, we'll leave you alone. But we'll be watching you, forever" and it used to be, if not 100% successful, at least 95% so. It's difficult enough for longtime ex-members to adjust to the reality of the wog world without having their previous reality chasing after them.
It was only when Rathbun popped up with a webpage, posted to ESMB and started reconnecting with other ex-members that Miscavige went for him.
> Of all the articles in the St. Pete Times, this recent one on Minton > was poorly written and confusing. I had trouble following it, and had > to keep reading certain passages more than once. But, well, at least > it is out there.
It was a very condensed summary of all the articles they have done in the past. For the details, you have to go back in their archives. Please bear in mind that the OG in the USA were deeply divided over this, and ANYTHING you say will start some of them squabbling again. Sometimes sleeping dogs should really be left alone.
Eldon wrote: >The main irregularity was that he had half a million anonymously > transferred to thee LMT from a secret European bank account and tried > to pawn it off as a donation from someone else. Apparently that was > set up to avoid paying taxes (or hide the fact that they hadn't been > paid). As I heard, the money was withdrawn by then-LMT attorney John > Merrett, and then wired to the US by Andreas Helmut-Lund.
Minton used both Merrett and Andreas and lied to both of them. I think Minton's "fear" of being sent to jail for perjury was a red herring and not the real reason why $CN was able to get him to turn traitor. Minton was in contempt of court already because he would not answer questions about his money.
Minton's mistress, Stacy Brooks was instrumental in contacting Mike Rinder to make a deal to get her sugar daddy and his money off the hook. Minton and Brooks met numerous times with Rinder and Yingling WITHOUT THEIR ATTORNEYS being present. Why, Rinder and Yingling were even "advising" them on what to put in their "new" affidavits.
Minton and Brooks even had the nerve to try to get Jesse Prince to join them in their lies for the CO$. Prince was so appalled at what his "friends" were doing and trying to get him to do, he called Minton a "Scientologist" and contacted the FBI
When the $CN"S Destroy the Attorney Operation didn't succeed in destroying Ken Dandar, the attorney for Lisa's family and making the Lisa wrongful death suit go away, Minton joined $CN in other things, including petitioning for Lisa's family to be removed as trustees of her estate.
The DANDAR DISQUALIFICATION HEARINGS (trial testimony, affidavits, judge's ruling, etc. ) were webbed by Mikey Gornez on his WHYARETHEY DEAD.NET website and told the whole sordid story of what Minton and Co$ did in their combined attempt to destroy Ken Dandar and make the Lisa wrongful death suit "go away".
Minton and Brooks even rescinded their affidavits which they had given in other cases and to other attorneys....Dan Leipold was another attorney they tried to backstab.
> Whether Merrett was just inept or crooked remains to be seen. My guess > is the latter.
You forgot one category, Eldon....Lied to, manipulated and misued by Minton. My guess would be that one. Merrett is now a judge, isn't he?
> Eldon wrote: > >The main irregularity was that he had half a million anonymously > > transferred to thee LMT from a secret European bank account and tried > > to pawn it off as a donation from someone else. Apparently that was > > set up to avoid paying taxes (or hide the fact that they hadn't been > > paid). As I heard, the money was withdrawn by then-LMT attorney John > > Merrett, and then wired to the US by Andreas Helmut-Lund.
> Minton used both Merrett and Andreas and lied to both of them. I > think Minton's "fear" of being sent to jail for perjury was a red > herring and not the real reason why $CN was able to get him to turn > traitor. Minton was in contempt of court already because he would > not answer questions about his money.
> Minton's mistress, Stacy Brooks was instrumental in contacting Mike > Rinder to make a deal to get her sugar daddy and his money off the > hook. Minton and Brooks met numerous times with Rinder and Yingling > WITHOUT THEIR ATTORNEYS being present. Why, Rinder and Yingling were > even "advising" them on what to put in their "new" affidavits.
> Minton and Brooks even had the nerve to try to get Jesse Prince to > join them in their lies for the CO$. Prince was so appalled at what > his "friends" were doing and trying to get him to do, he called Minton > a "Scientologist" and contacted the FBI
> When the $CN"S Destroy the Attorney Operation didn't succeed in > destroying Ken Dandar, the attorney for Lisa's family and making the > Lisa wrongful death suit go away, Minton joined $CN in other things, > including petitioning for Lisa's family to be removed as trustees of > her estate.
> The DANDAR DISQUALIFICATION HEARINGS > (trial testimony, affidavits, judge's ruling, etc. ) were webbed by > Mikey Gornez on his WHYARETHEY DEAD.NET website and told the whole > sordid story of what Minton and Co$ did in their combined attempt to > destroy Ken Dandar and make the Lisa wrongful death suit "go > away".
> Minton and Brooks even rescinded their affidavits which they had > given in other cases and to other attorneys....Dan Leipold was another > attorney they tried to backstab.
> > Whether Merrett was just inept or crooked remains to be seen. My guess > > is the latter.
> You forgot one category, Eldon....Lied to, manipulated and misued by > Minton. My guess would be that one. Merrett is now a judge, isn't > he?
An elected one in Jax last I heard. So what does that say one way or the other? He did too many things wrongly or negligently when he was representing the LMT not to be highly suspect of being compromised by Scientology. Maybe Mike Rinder will tell us one day.
On Nov 5, 9:37 am, Hartley Patterson <hptt...@daisy.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > My initial reaction to reading (a few years after it happened, since > > I'm new to following this) that Rinder and Rathbun were no longer in > > the cult, I assumed the cult would have had to have paid them off to > > gag them. Because they knew too much.
> Miscavige still thinks his cult is too scary and powerful to have to bribe > anyone. The agreements, actual or implied, have always been "if you say > nothing, we'll leave you alone. But we'll be watching you, forever" and it > used to be, if not 100% successful, at least 95% so. It's difficult enough > for longtime ex-members to adjust to the reality of the wog world without > having their previous reality chasing after them.
Very well put. I can accept that. It still boggles my mind, how MUCH Rinder must know. Director of the OSA International. Even as spokesperson, he probably had a handle on what was happening, and what he was instructed to say to cover it up.
> >> That's tired old news, and it was the traitors and apostates that > >> were responsible. When Mr David Miscavige found out, he ordered all > >> the attacks on Bob Minton to stop and quickly resolved his > >> differences with the Church. Mr Minton has not made any complaints > >> about Scientology since that day.
> > Surely you jest. Minton was not only ordered to stop, but to help > > $CN destroy critics and make the Lisa wrongful death suit "go away". > > Part of Minton's "deal" with the devil seems to have been that he, > > Stacy Brooks and Mark Bunker be removed from $CN's Religious Freedon > > Watch.
> > I wish Rinder and Rathbun would be more forthcoming with what > > happened, but since it appears both they and Minton did some illegal > > stuff, it is not surprising that they aren't. But the SPTimes laid > > out the facts, which "some" have been denying for years.
> > What did Rinder mean by this?
> > Quote:
> > "Rinder, who once described Minton's actions as "despicable and > > disgusting," > > now considers him a friend." End of Quote
> The one common denominator among Minton's "friends" is that rec'd > money from him.
> Makes me wonder if Rinder is part of that circle.
> >> It almost writes itself doesn't it...
> > Gee, they left out Arnie Lerma's version of the story.
> > Tigger
> >> -- > >> Patterson's Law: all public Internet discussions > >> about Scientology will include a post claiming that > >> all religions are equally > >> badhttp://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/stolgy_0.htm
Patty Pieniadz wrote: > The one common denominator among Minton's "friends" is that rec'd > money from him.
> Makes me wonder if Rinder is part of that circle.
I'd consider myself a friend of Bob's and he never gave me any money, although, he did pay for a hamburger once. And, I can think of quite a few people that would apply to.
So; bullshit.
Now, whatever happened to the Lisa Case? Wasn't there something about there being 'no gag'??
On Nov 6, 1:51 pm, Zinj <zinji...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Patty Pieniadz wrote: > > The one common denominator among Minton's "friends" is that rec'd > > money from him.
> > Makes me wonder if Rinder is part of that circle.
> I'd consider myself a friend of Bob's and he never gave me any money, > although, he did pay for a hamburger once. And, I can think of quite a > few people that would apply to.
> So; bullshit.
> Now, whatever happened to the Lisa Case? Wasn't there something about > there being 'no gag'??
Who told you that? The master rewriter of history, Arnaldo Lerma?
Thanks for reminding us what a gibbering nutjob you are, by linking to your incoherent drug-addled imbecility. You might recall that Bob actually paid Peter Alexander to make that film. Nice try though, you lying sack of shit.
> - -- > Key ID 0x09723C12, jenst...@tingleff.org > Analogue filtering / 5GHz RLAN / Mandriva Linux / odds and ends > http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/ +44 1223 829 985 > "I said 'this can't be me, must be my double'" L Cohen > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
Tommy Davis is outright lying. Sea Org members follow orders. They have no say in what they work on and everything is programmed, monitored, statistically reviewed and condoned by a superior.
That said, Rathbun, in an attempt to minimize his own culpability in acting on Scientology's behalf ( which he is working hard at evading ) says things here about Minton that are simply not true. I agree with Shawn's_Friend:
" This is sad and Rathbun should be ashamed of himself. John Fashanu has confessed that there was no truth to the charges laid out in the report that bore his name. He’s asked for forgiveness from the Nigerian government for the lies he put forth http://www.xenutv.com/blog/?p=3426 "
Rathbun is not going to tell the whole truth because it will make him look bad and it will give credibility to the critics of scientology who believe Minton was blackmailed and extorted.
Just look at the end of the latest Rathbun interview where he is asked to discuss what happened with Don Jason by Tobin or Childs. It was painfully obvious that Rathbun, who intervened in Jason's escape at the airport, experienced great discomfort in looking at it from Jason's POV. That is very telling. Rathbun, pointing the finger at Miscavige, failed to show responsibility for his complicity in these terrible acts against members. There are hundreds of people, maybe thousands, who Miscavige orderd Rathbun to 'handle'. Instead of accepting responsibility for the things he did and making right by those he hurt or traumatized, he ignores his past until forced to by a reporter.
A few of the victims have managed to muster up forgiveness, which I applaud, but that does not change the lack of humility one would expect from someone who did these things without a second thought and when pressed, blames it all on his superior.
He does not want those victims making waves while he leads the charge in getting Miscavige's deeds made known through media. That's a stupid and cowardly move. We all want Miscavige out for the same reasons but it's hypocritical of Rathbun to hide behind his past, and distort history to avoid his own part in this terrible play.
I hope the reporters ask more hard questions of him, and Rinder because not doing so allows scientology to spin the story and unfairly place the blame for these behaviors on Rathbun and Rinder, who were, if we are to believe Rathbun 'only following orders'. That didn't hold up for the Nazi's and it should not hold up for Miscavige's henchmen - whether still in or out.
Tigger wrote: > On Nov 6, 1:51 pm, Zinj <zinji...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> Patty Pieniadz wrote: >>> The one common denominator among Minton's "friends" is that rec'd >>> money from him. >>> Makes me wonder if Rinder is part of that circle. >> I'd consider myself a friend of Bob's and he never gave me any money, >> although, he did pay for a hamburger once. And, I can think of quite a >> few people that would apply to.
>> So; bullshit.
>> Now, whatever happened to the Lisa Case? Wasn't there something about >> there being 'no gag'??
> Who told you that? The master rewriter of history, Arnaldo Lerma?
> Tigger
Ken Dandar told me and everyone else that he was gagged.
> Tommy Davis is outright lying. Sea Org members follow orders. They > have no say in what they work on and everything is programmed, > monitored, statistically reviewed and condoned by a superior.
> That said, Rathbun, in an attempt to minimize his own culpability in > acting on Scientology's behalf ( which he is working hard at evading ) > says things here about Minton that are simply not true. I agree with > Shawn's_Friend:
> " This is sad and Rathbun should be ashamed of himself. John Fashanu > has confessed that there was no truth to the charges laid out in the > report that bore his name. He’s asked for forgiveness from the > Nigerian government for the lies he put forthhttp://www.xenutv.com/blog/?p=3426 > "
> Rathbun is not going to tell the whole truth because it will make him > look bad and it will give credibility to the critics of scientology > who believe Minton was blackmailed and extorted.
> Just look at the end of the latest Rathbun interview where he is asked > to discuss what happened with Don Jason by Tobin or Childs. It was > painfully obvious that Rathbun, who intervened in Jason's escape at > the airport, experienced great discomfort in looking at it from > Jason's POV. That is very telling. Rathbun, pointing the finger at > Miscavige, failed to show responsibility for his complicity in these > terrible acts against members. There are hundreds of people, maybe > thousands, who Miscavige orderd Rathbun to 'handle'. Instead of > accepting responsibility for the things he did and making right by > those he hurt or traumatized, he ignores his past until forced to by a > reporter.
> A few of the victims have managed to muster up forgiveness, which I > applaud, but that does not change the lack of humility one would > expect from someone who did these things without a second thought and > when pressed, blames it all on his superior.
> He does not want those victims making waves while he leads the charge > in getting Miscavige's deeds made known through media. That's a stupid > and cowardly move. We all want Miscavige out for the same reasons but > it's hypocritical of Rathbun to hide behind his past, and distort > history to avoid his own part in this terrible play.
> I hope the reporters ask more hard questions of him, and Rinder > because not doing so allows scientology to spin the story and unfairly > place the blame for these behaviors on Rathbun and Rinder, who were, > if we are to believe Rathbun 'only following orders'. That didn't hold > up for the Nazi's and it should not hold up for Miscavige's henchmen - > whether still in or out.
Well, I think you could skip the Nazi analogy. Miscavige isn't waging war on half of the world, or gassing and incinerating hordes of people.
My impression is that Rathbun is gradually waking up and becoming more honest with himself. Rinder will probably take longer. To some extent, they can get away with dodging responsibility, but if they outright lie, somebody will call them on it. Unlike Miscavige, they are subject to criticism by their peers, meaning the flock of "independents" Marty and the gang at www.scientology-cult.org have accumulated.
> Tigger wrote: > > On Nov 6, 1:51 pm, Zinj <zinji...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Patty Pieniadz wrote: > >>> The one common denominator among Minton's "friends" is that rec'd > >>> money from him. > >>> Makes me wonder if Rinder is part of that circle. > >> I'd consider myself a friend of Bob's and he never gave me any money, > >> although, he did pay for a hamburger once. And, I can think of quite a > >> few people that would apply to.
> >> So; bullshit.
> >> Now, whatever happened to the Lisa Case? Wasn't there something about > >> there being 'no gag'??
> > Who told you that? The master rewriter of history, Arnaldo Lerma?
> > Tigger
> Ken Dandar told me and everyone else that he was gagged.
> Did you miss that?
No Zinj. But that wasn't in your post, was it? You posted: "Wasn't there something about there being 'no gag'?" which "suggested" you were questioning the truth of there being a gag. I was asking you for the "source" of the allegation that there was "NO GAG".
> >> That's tired old news, and it was the traitors and apostates that > >> were responsible. When Mr David Miscavige found out, he ordered all > >> the attacks on Bob Minton to stop and quickly resolved his > >> differences with the Church. Mr Minton has not made any complaints > >> about Scientology since that day.
> > Surely you jest. Minton was not only ordered to stop, but to help > > $CN destroy critics and make the Lisa wrongful death suit "go away". > > Part of Minton's "deal" with the devil seems to have been that he, > > Stacy Brooks and Mark Bunker be removed from $CN's Religious Freedon > > Watch.
> > I wish Rinder and Rathbun would be more forthcoming with what > > happened, but since it appears both they and Minton did some illegal > > stuff, it is not surprising that they aren't. But the SPTimes laid > > out the facts, which "some" have been denying for years.
> > What did Rinder mean by this?
> > Quote:
> > "Rinder, who once described Minton's actions as "despicable and > > disgusting," > > now considers him a friend." End of Quote
> The one common denominator among Minton's "friends" is that rec'd > money from him.
> > >> That's tired old news, and it was the traitors and apostates that > > >> were responsible. When Mr David Miscavige found out, he ordered all > > >> the attacks on Bob Minton to stop and quickly resolved his > > >> differences with the Church. Mr Minton has not made any complaints > > >> about Scientology since that day.
> > > Surely you jest. Minton was not only ordered to stop, but to help > > > $CN destroy critics and make the Lisa wrongful death suit "go away". > > > Part of Minton's "deal" with the devil seems to have been that he, > > > Stacy Brooks and Mark Bunker be removed from $CN's Religious Freedon > > > Watch.
> > > I wish Rinder and Rathbun would be more forthcoming with what > > > happened, but since it appears both they and Minton did some illegal > > > stuff, it is not surprising that they aren't. But the SPTimes laid > > > out the facts, which "some" have been denying for years.
> > > What did Rinder mean by this?
> > > Quote:
> > > "Rinder, who once described Minton's actions as "despicable and > > > disgusting," > > > now considers him a friend." End of Quote
> > The one common denominator among Minton's "friends" is that rec'd > > money from him.
> > > >> That's tired old news, and it was the traitors and apostates that > > > >> were responsible. When Mr David Miscavige found out, he ordered all > > > >> the attacks on Bob Minton to stop and quickly resolved his > > > >> differences with the Church. Mr Minton has not made any complaints > > > >> about Scientology since that day.
> > > > Surely you jest. Minton was not only ordered to stop, but to help > > > > $CN destroy critics and make the Lisa wrongful death suit "go away". > > > > Part of Minton's "deal" with the devil seems to have been that he, > > > > Stacy Brooks and Mark Bunker be removed from $CN's Religious Freedon > > > > Watch.
> > > > I wish Rinder and Rathbun would be more forthcoming with what > > > > happened, but since it appears both they and Minton did some illegal > > > > stuff, it is not surprising that they aren't. But the SPTimes laid > > > > out the facts, which "some" have been denying for years.
> > > > What did Rinder mean by this?
> > > > Quote:
> > > > "Rinder, who once described Minton's actions as "despicable and > > > > disgusting," > > > > now considers him a friend." End of Quote
> > > The one common denominator among Minton's "friends" is that rec'd > > > money from him.
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