I'm working out a fingerstyle version of Mellow Yellow. I'm playing it in G major cause it's easy to finger the melody notes in that key. Chords are just G, C and D, at least that's all I'm using ;-)
As with most tunes that use a D chord, I can't decide what bass notes to use under the D chord. A lot of beginners books etc. say to use F#, D, F#, D but I've never really been happy with using the third (F#) as the first bass note in this sort of alternating pattern. I could detune the bottom E to D but this messes up the bass on the G chord. Another option is to alternate D on the 4th string with A on the 5th string. I suppose I could even go A, D, A, D instead of D, A etc.
What alternating bass notes would you use under a D chord?
Mr. Green wrote: > I'm working out a fingerstyle version of Mellow Yellow. I'm playing it > in G major... > What alternating bass notes would you use under a D chord?
Seems to play out just fine using the traditionsl D - A as the bass notes, particularly where the D chord is in that song.
*** (monospaced font) G C I'm just mad about Saffron G D Saffron's mad about me C I'm just mad about Saffron D She's just mad about me (They call me mellow...) ***
At the D chord, 2nd line, if you're alternating D and A in the bass, it walks down nicely to the C chord by half steps. ie (bass notes) D - A C# - G# C - G
That's if you're playing alternating bass notes on quarter notes. In the most traditional version, we're probably used to hearing JUST root notes in the bass on quarters.
If you used F# in the bass, and played the bass notes in half notes instead of quarters, then the F# would do a nice, natural leading tone thing back to the G note at the END of the verse (the turnaround) just before G "(they call me mellow...) yellow..."
If you're not reading in monospaced font, put the G chord above over the word "yellow".
If you did alternating I-V notes on the bass and did it a little uptempo, you'd have something like a bluegrass version.
In whatever style, that F# always wants to lead UP to the G. It's the leading tone, trying to return to the tonic. So using it where the chord returns to G probably seems more comfortable than using it where the chord drops to C (the sub-dominant).
If you did use the F# before the C chord, that F# would tend to lead UP to the G note, meaning you'd be playing the 5 of the C chord (the G note) on the downbeat. We probably want to hear the 1 of the chord on the downbeat in most settings, so that might seem a little gerflexed.
> Mr. Green wrote: > > I'm working out a fingerstyle version of Mellow Yellow. I'm playing it > > in G major... > > What alternating bass notes would you use under a D chord?
> Seems to play out just fine using the traditionsl D - A as > the bass notes, particularly where the D chord is in > that song.
> *** (monospaced font) > G C > I'm just mad about Saffron > G D > Saffron's mad about me > C > I'm just mad about Saffron > D > She's just mad about me (They call me mellow...) > ***
> At the D chord, 2nd line, if you're alternating > D and A in the bass, it walks down nicely to > the C chord by half steps. ie > (bass notes) > D - A > C# - G# > C - G
> That's if you're playing alternating bass notes > on quarter notes. In the most traditional version, > we're probably used to hearing JUST root notes in > the bass on quarters.
> If you used F# in the bass, and played the bass notes > in half notes instead of quarters, then the F# would > do a nice, natural leading tone thing back to the G > note at the END of the verse (the turnaround) just > before > G > "(they call me mellow...) yellow..."
> If you're not reading in monospaced font, put the G > chord above over the word "yellow".
> If you did alternating I-V notes on the bass and > did it a little uptempo, you'd have something like > a bluegrass version.
> In whatever style, that F# always wants to lead UP > to the G. It's the leading tone, trying to return > to the tonic. So using it where the chord returns > to G probably seems more comfortable than using it > where the chord drops to C (the sub-dominant).
> If you did use the F# before the C chord, that F# > would tend to lead UP to the G note, meaning you'd > be playing the 5 of the C chord (the G note) on > the downbeat. We probably want to hear the 1 of > the chord on the downbeat in most settings, so > that might seem a little gerflexed.
I'm still getting the hang of doing my own arrangements so all the extra info's really appreciated. I'd thought the original may have been just root notes in the bass but I thought I'd give it a go both ways, I need the practice.
Your comment about wanting to hear the 1 of the chord on the down beat highlighted what had always troubled me with the idea of using F#, D, F#, D as a base line.
My wife has always been a Donovan fan so I recently got her a few new CDs (to replace old LP's) and this one sounded like fun. If I've got it right, there's a few interesting notes in there like the odd F over the G chord in the chorus and a Bb over the C chord. Gives it a bit of a mix / blues feel. I often find the simple tunes that catch my ear turn out to have a mix or dorian thing going on. Been looking at a little book of English folk tunes. Hell of a lot of those are also mix or dorian based. Funny how so much emphasis is always put on the straight major scale.
+1. A hell of a lot of off-putting damage got done in my experience of primary school music teaching. It took years to realise that all the popular, interesting stuff wasn't about doh, ray, me and white notes. What the hell were those hand signals about, anyway?
LOL, unfortunately I missed her hippie days in London. Me, in the words of Mr Guy, "I'm green as a pool table and you know I'm twice as square". I'n sure there are still a lot of things she hasn't told me about her passed life however, she did mentioned the guy who kept his stash on a little island in the middle of the room occupied by his pet snakes. There was also some other stories which involved cakes and mushrooms. Life was much tamer for me down on the rural south coast ;-)
On 5 Nov, 14:22, one_riff_brian <brianhughe...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 5, 12:57 pm, "Mr. Green"<cl...@wheatleymetalfabrications.co.uk> wrote:
> Funny how so much emphasis is always put on the
> > straight major scale.
> +1. A hell of a lot of off-putting damage got done in my experience of > primary school music teaching. It took years to realise that all the > popular, interesting stuff wasn't about doh, ray, me and white notes. > What the hell were those hand signals about, anyway?
I did music at secondary school, I can't knock it too much 'cause it gave me the basics about chord construction etc but yes, it did very little to prepare me for popular music. I can remember taking up guitar at 15 and finding that nothing I was listening to made any sense when I tried to relate it to the theory I was learning. I'd try and work out Jim Page and Clapton riffs in terms of the major scale.
For a while I came to the conclusion that all the rock stuff must use theory which was way beyond me. I suppose you've gotta start somewhere but pentatonic scales, mix and dorian are so common in popular music you'd think someone would have mentioned them somewhere in a two year course.
Yeah, I remember hand signals but what they were supposed to mean, clueless? however, Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle has been really useful both ways round ;-)
> > however, Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle has been > > really useful both ways round ;-)
> ??? What's that a mnemonic for? > -- > Tim C.
It's the order of the sharps in a key signature. The neat bit is, backwards it's the order of the flats and it still makes sense. It's also the circle of fifths.
>>> however, Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle has been >>> really useful both ways round ;-)
>> ??? What's that a mnemonic for? >> -- >> Tim C.
> It's the order of the sharps in a key signature. The neat bit is, > backwards it's the order of the flats and it still makes sense. It's > also the circle of fifths.
> Green
Aha thanks. I will ponder on that. Methinks it could be useful.
>> > however, Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle has been >> > really useful both ways round ;-)
>> ??? What's that a mnemonic for? >> -- >> Tim C.
>It's the order of the sharps in a key signature. The neat bit is, >backwards it's the order of the flats and it still makes sense. It's >also the circle of fifths.
>Green
It's also the order of the bass buttons on my accordian.
> On 5 Nov, 14:22, one_riff_brian <brianhughe...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 5, 12:57 pm, "Mr. Green"<cl...@wheatleymetalfabrications.co.uk> wrote:
> > Funny how so much emphasis is always put on the
> > > straight major scale.
> > +1. A hell of a lot of off-putting damage got done in my experience of > > primary school music teaching. It took years to realise that all the > > popular, interesting stuff wasn't about doh, ray, me and white notes. > > What the hell were those hand signals about, anyway?
> I did music at secondary school, I can't knock it too much 'cause it > gave me the basics about chord construction etc but yes, it did very > little to prepare me for popular music. I can remember taking up > guitar at 15 and finding that nothing I was listening to made any > sense when I tried to relate it to the theory I was learning. I'd try > and work out Jim Page and Clapton riffs in terms of the major scale.
> For a while I came to the conclusion that all the rock stuff must use > theory which was way beyond me. I suppose you've gotta start somewhere > but pentatonic scales, mix and dorian are so common in popular music > you'd think someone would have mentioned them somewhere in a two year > course.
> Yeah, I remember hand signals but what they were supposed to mean, > clueless? however, Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle has been > really useful both ways round ;-)
I just remember them as a waste of time. Secondary school? Less damage done- I do remember Foolish Charles Goes Down And Eats Buns, but that was in the context of where the sharps go on the staff. I did learn some useful stuff about Hertz, harmonics, and resonance- but not in music lessons.
I Don't Play Like Malmsteen And Lifeson....... anybody?
To be honest, the idea of modes still strikes me as overcomplication. Root, octave, and eleven notes in between. 2048 permutations. Choose one that doesn't sound alien to whatever culture you're making music in, unless you particularly want it to, and call it what you like.
0, 3, 5, 7, 10, 12 ....I got the Blues so bad.
0, 1, 4, 5, 7, 8, 11, 12... Arabic scale.
0, 2, 4, 6, 9, 10, 12...I *think* that's the Prometheus Neapolitan scale- but I've better things to lose sleep over.
Simple maths and permutations, basically...until a sitar player comes along :-(
> On Nov 5, 3:06 pm, "Mr. Green" <cl...@wheatleymetalfabrications.co.uk> > wrote:
> > On 5 Nov, 14:22, one_riff_brian <brianhughe...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > On Nov 5, 12:57 pm, "Mr. Green"<cl...@wheatleymetalfabrications.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Funny how so much emphasis is always put on the
> > > > straight major scale.
> > > +1. A hell of a lot of off-putting damage got done in my experience of > > > primary school music teaching. It took years to realise that all the > > > popular, interesting stuff wasn't about doh, ray, me and white notes. > > > What the hell were those hand signals about, anyway?
> > I did music at secondary school, I can't knock it too much 'cause it > > gave me the basics about chord construction etc but yes, it did very > > little to prepare me for popular music. I can remember taking up > > guitar at 15 and finding that nothing I was listening to made any > > sense when I tried to relate it to the theory I was learning. I'd try > > and work out Jim Page and Clapton riffs in terms of the major scale.
> > For a while I came to the conclusion that all the rock stuff must use > > theory which was way beyond me. I suppose you've gotta start somewhere > > but pentatonic scales, mix and dorian are so common in popular music > > you'd think someone would have mentioned them somewhere in a two year > > course.
> > Yeah, I remember hand signals but what they were supposed to mean, > > clueless? however, Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle has been > > really useful both ways round ;-)
> I just remember them as a waste of time. Secondary school? Less damage > done- I do remember Foolish Charles Goes Down And Eats Buns, but that > was in the context of where the sharps go on the staff. I did learn > some useful stuff about Hertz, harmonics, and resonance- but not in > music lessons.
> I Don't Play Like Malmsteen And Lifeson....... anybody?
> To be honest, the idea of modes still strikes me as overcomplication. > Root, octave, and eleven notes in between. 2048 permutations. Choose > one that doesn't sound alien to whatever culture you're making music > in, unless you particularly want it to, and call it what you like.
> 0, 3, 5, 7, 10, 12 ....I got the Blues so bad.
> 0, 1, 4, 5, 7, 8, 11, 12... Arabic scale.
> 0, 2, 4, 6, 9, 10, 12...I *think* that's the Prometheus Neapolitan > scale- but I've better things to lose sleep over.
> Simple maths and permutations, basically...until a sitar player comes > along :-(- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Blues music, developed by guys with no formal music theory and a slide. I take your point.
Nothing complicated about modes. It's the same as the major scale we get to choose which note to use as the root.
If the chords are already defined I enjoy playing off the chord tones plus extentions and passing notes and, just forgetting the whole scale thing.
I enjoy maths because there's only one answer and you know when you've got it right. I enjoy music 'cause so often there is no right answer. Mathes is defined by it's rules while the rules of music are just theories. The more I accept this the more I enjoy playing music :-)
> I'm working out a fingerstyle version of Mellow Yellow. I'm playing it > in G major cause it's easy to finger the melody notes in that key. > Chords are just G, C and D, at least that's all I'm using ;-)
> As with most tunes that use a D chord, I can't decide what bass notes > to use under the D chord. A lot of beginners books etc. say to use F#, > D, F#, D but I've never really been happy with using the third (F#) as > the first bass note in this sort of alternating pattern. I could > detune the bottom E to D but this messes up the bass on the G chord. > Another option is to alternate D on the 4th string with A on the 5th > string. I suppose I could even go A, D, A, D instead of D, A etc.
> What alternating bass notes would you use under a D chord?
> Green
I generally use A/D, but it depends a bit on the song. For example in "Banks of the Ohio" in D, that version is good because I drop to the low G on the chord change, and it adds dramatic emphasis. For "Stagolee" (Rory Block version) dropped D works well because you don't need the low G on the G chord. If playing in A, I might use the F#/D version, as in the Carter Family song "Hello Stranger".
> > I'm working out a fingerstyle version of Mellow Yellow. I'm playing it > > in G major cause it's easy to finger the melody notes in that key. > > Chords are just G, C and D, at least that's all I'm using ;-)
> > As with most tunes that use a D chord, I can't decide what bass notes > > to use under the D chord. A lot of beginners books etc. say to use F#, > > D, F#, D but I've never really been happy with using the third (F#) as > > the first bass note in this sort of alternating pattern. I could > > detune the bottom E to D but this messes up the bass on the G chord. > > Another option is to alternate D on the 4th string with A on the 5th > > string. I suppose I could even go A, D, A, D instead of D, A etc.
> > What alternating bass notes would you use under a D chord?
> > Green
> I generally use A/D, but it depends a bit on the song. For example in > "Banks of the Ohio" in D, that version is good because I drop to the low G > on the chord change, and it adds dramatic emphasis. For "Stagolee" (Rory > Block version) dropped D works well because you don't need the low G on the > G chord. If playing in A, I might use the F#/D version, as in the Carter > Family song "Hello Stranger".
I suppose the thing with open D chord is that the lowest D note is always gonna be higher than the available third or fifth. I just like the root note to be the lowest of the two bass notes.
I play a fingerstyle version of Off To California which uses dropped D, that works well. I don't mine dropped D but, I avoid other non- standard tunings. It took me years to get my fingerboard knowledge up to a pretty decent level so I want to be able to use that knowledge. For me special tunings are like starting again, I barely have enough playing time for standard tuning. Dropped D is definately useful though.
Did you mean you use A, D, A, D as a base line under D chords?
>> What alternating bass notes would you use under a D chord?
>> Green
> I generally use A/D, but it depends a bit on the song. For example in > "Banks of the Ohio" in D, that version is good because I drop to the low > G on the chord change, and it adds dramatic emphasis. For "Stagolee" > (Rory Block version) dropped D works well because you don't need the low > G on the G chord. If playing in A, I might use the F#/D version, as in > the Carter Family song "Hello Stranger".
> Tony Done wrote: > (snip) >>> What alternating bass notes would you use under a D chord?
>>> Green
>> I generally use A/D, but it depends a bit on the song. For example in >> "Banks of the Ohio" in D, that version is good because I drop to the low >> G on the chord change, and it adds dramatic emphasis. For "Stagolee" >> (Rory Block version) dropped D works well because you don't need the low >> G on the G chord. If playing in A, I might use the F#/D version, as in >> the Carter Family song "Hello Stranger".
> Do you mean D/A and D/F#? Or are you left-handed?
And MG, it goes ADAD or F#DF#D, the A and F# are on the first beat, ie low note first and the D is the 4th string.
<g> I knew my sig would come in useful soon. You can hear a strong alternating bass style on "John Henry", open D tuning playing DDDD on the octaves, on my Soundclick page.
> > Tony Done wrote: > > (snip) > >>> What alternating bass notes would you use under a D chord?
> >>> Green
> >> I generally use A/D, but it depends a bit on the song. For example in > >> "Banks of the Ohio" in D, that version is good because I drop to the low > >> G on the chord change, and it adds dramatic emphasis. For "Stagolee" > >> (Rory Block version) dropped D works well because you don't need the low > >> G on the G chord. If playing in A, I might use the F#/D version, as in > >> the Carter Family song "Hello Stranger".
> > Do you mean D/A and D/F#? Or are you left-handed?
> And MG, it goes ADAD or F#DF#D, the A and F# are on the first beat, ie low > note first and the D is the 4th string.
> <g> I knew my sig would come in useful soon. You can hear a strong > alternating bass style on "John Henry", open D tuning playing DDDD on the > octaves, on my Soundclick page.
I've been trying out an A, D, A, D bass line with the D chord on Travis style finger picking patterns. I like it, definately works well in the key of G.
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