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Cliff  
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 More options 2 Nov, 22:09
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment, alt.aol.tricks
From: Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:09:14 -0500
Local: Mon 2 Nov 2009 22:09
Subject: icy peaks are thawing fast

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/globalwarming/2009-11-02-kili...
  "Kilimanjaro's famous icy peaks are thawing fast"
[
Climate change could cause the legendary snow and ice atop Mount Kilimanjaro to
disappear within the next 25 years, scientists report today in the journal
Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
For the first time in almost 12,000 years, based on ice-core analysis, Africa's
highest peak probably will be ice-free as early as 2022 or as late as 2033, says
glaciologist Lonnie Thompson of Ohio State University, who led the study.

"Of the ice cover present in 1912," Thompson and his colleagues write in the
paper, "85% has disappeared and 26% of that present in 2000 is now gone."
]


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Catoni  
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 More options 3 Nov, 00:16
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism, alt.global-warming, sci.environment
From: Catoni <caton...@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 16:16:19 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues 3 Nov 2009 00:16
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast
Cliff typed:

 Opinionated article from the popular press.

           Reply:

                  This AGW claim of Kilimanjaro losing its icecap due
to AGW has already been de-bunked many times.     Nothing to do with
global warming. It began to retreat back in the 1800's as we came out
of the Little Ice Age about 1850. Helped by altered local rainfall
patters due to deforestation in the area by the natives.
   In the last few hundreds of thousands of years, Kilimanjaro has
probably lost and gained an icecap many, many times.


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I M @ good guy  
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 More options 3 Nov, 02:24
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment, alt.aol.tricks
From: "I M @ good guy" <I...@good.guy>
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:24:03 -0400
Local: Tues 3 Nov 2009 02:24
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:09:14 -0500, Cliff

<Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:

>http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/globalwarming/2009-11-02-kili...
>  "Kilimanjaro's famous icy peaks are thawing fast"
>[
>Climate change could cause the legendary snow and ice atop Mount Kilimanjaro to
>disappear within the next 25 years, scientists report today in the journal
>Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
>For the first time in almost 12,000 years, based on ice-core analysis, Africa's
>highest peak probably will be ice-free as early as 2022 or as late as 2033, says
>glaciologist Lonnie Thompson of Ohio State University, who led the study.

>"Of the ice cover present in 1912," Thompson and his colleagues write in the
>paper, "85% has disappeared and 26% of that present in 2000 is now gone."
>]

          Much more interesting is how the ice spires formed;

          (see slide 2 and 3)

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Mount-Kilimanjaro/ss/events/sc/110209mt...


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Cliff  
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 More options 3 Nov, 18:47
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment, alt.aol.tricks
From: Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:47:43 -0500
Local: Tues 3 Nov 2009 18:47
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:24:03 -0400, "I M @ good guy" <I...@good.guy> wrote:

  One could speculate but ... ?
--
Cliff

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Zymrgy  
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 More options 4 Nov, 02:11
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment
From: Zymrgy <zym...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 18:11:49 -0800 (PST)
Local: Wed 4 Nov 2009 02:11
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast
On Nov 2, 3:09 pm, Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
wrote:

> http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/globalwarming/2009-11-02-kili...
>   "Kilimanjaro's famous icy peaks are thawing fast"
> [
> Climate change could cause the legendary snow and ice atop Mount Kilimanjaro to
> disappear within the next 25 years, scientists report today in the journal
> Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
> For the first time in almost 12,000 years, based on ice-core analysis, Africa's
> highest peak probably will be ice-free as early as 2022 or as late as 2033, says
> glaciologist Lonnie Thompson of Ohio State University, who led the study.

> "Of the ice cover present in 1912," Thompson and his colleagues write in the
> paper, "85% has disappeared and 26% of that present in 2000 is now gone."
> ]

Thompson...what a tool. Kilimanjaro suffers from land use changes
(deforestation) which in turn effects the amount of moisture around
the mountain....also there is Atlantic Multidecadal changes.
Deforestation also adds to the dust in the atmosphere, which lands on
whatever snow Kilimanjaro does get, which speeds up the melting
process. This shit is OLD news. Thompson also states that "coupled
with even greater increases in the mid- to upper-tropical troposphere,
as documented in recent decades, would at least partially
explain”....This is complete bullshit. Go check the data from NOAA and
other sources. Satellites and weather balloons show no warming in mid
to high levels in the tropics. Only in the tinkertoy climate models
does that happen.

And whats the big fucking deal if it DOES lose its glaciers. It didn't
have any 12,000 years ago...a blink of an eye climatology/geologically
speaking. It will disappear someday...and most likely reappear again.
wait a few million years.


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T. Keating  
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 More options 4 Nov, 14:27
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment
From: T. Keating <tkuse...@ktcnslt.com>
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:27:15 -0500
Local: Wed 4 Nov 2009 14:27
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast
On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 18:11:49 -0800 (PST), Zymrgy <zym...@gmail.com>
wrote:

A lot of animals and people will be displaced when the melt water
shrinks to a tiny trickle.  

Now for a completely different continent.
http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/COUNTRIES/LACEXT/ECUADOREXTN...
"Large cities in the region are depending on glacial runoffs for their
water supply."
"Retracting Glacier Impacts Economic Outlook in the Tropical Andes"


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JohnM  
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 More options 4 Nov, 14:43
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment
From: JohnM <john_howard_mor...@hotmail.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 06:43:42 -0800 (PST)
Local: Wed 4 Nov 2009 14:43
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast
On Nov 4, 8:27 am, T. Keating <tkuse...@ktcnslt.com> wrote:

Plenty of water in Vietnam just now :-((

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erschroedinger@gmail.com  
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 More options 4 Nov, 15:15
Newsgroups: alt.global-warming
From: "erschroedin...@gmail.com" <erschroedin...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 07:15:37 -0800 (PST)
Local: Wed 4 Nov 2009 15:15
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast
On Nov 2, 7:16 pm, Catoni <caton...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> Cliff typed:

>  Opinionated article from the popular press.

>            Reply:

>                   This AGW claim of Kilimanjaro losing its icecap due
> to AGW has already been de-bunked many times.     Nothing to do with
> global warming. It began to retreat back in the 1800's as we came out
> of the Little Ice Age about 1850. Helped by altered local rainfall
> patters due to deforestation in the area by the natives.
>    In the last few hundreds of thousands of years, Kilimanjaro has
> probably lost and gained an icecap many, many times.

Why did the loss of ice accelerate around the year 2000?

Read this:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/05/tropical-glacie...

If you don't want to read the whole thing, search for "Kilimanjaro"
and read what it says about that.

"The Heartland Institute’s propagation of the notion that the
Kilimanjaro glacier retreat has been proved to be due to deforestation
is even more egregious. They quote “an article published in Nature” by
Betsy Mason (”African ice under wraps,” Nature, 24 November, 2003)
which contains the statement “Although it’s tempting to blame the ice
loss on global warming, researchers think that deforestation of the
mountain’s foothills is the more likely culprit.” Elsewhere, Heartland
refers to this as a “study.” The “study” is in reality no scientific
study at all, but a news piece devoted almost entirely to Euan
Nesbit’s proposal to save the Kilimanjaro glacier by wrapping it in a
giant tarp. The article never says who the “experts” are, nor does it
quote any scientific studies supporting the claim. The Mason news
article is what Crichton quotes as “peer reviewed research” proving
that it is deforestation, not global warming, which is causing the
Kilimanjaro glaciers to retreat. (George Monbiot’s article in The
Guardian documents a similar case of systematic misrepresentation of
glacier data by skeptics.)"


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I M @ good guy  
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 More options 4 Nov, 17:28
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment
From: "I M @ good guy" <I...@good.guy>
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 13:28:02 -0400
Local: Wed 4 Nov 2009 17:28
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:27:15 -0500, T. Keating <tkuse...@ktcnslt.com>
wrote:

           So glaciers supply melt water for 12,000 years,
magically, with no snowfall?

     What a crock, if there is no snow, the end is near,
what happened to Global Warming promising more
precipitation?

>Now for a completely different continent.
>http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/COUNTRIES/LACEXT/ECUADOREXTN...
>"Large cities in the region are depending on glacial runoffs for their
>water supply."
>"Retracting Glacier Impacts Economic Outlook in the Tropical Andes"

        What a crock, if there is no snow, the end is near,
what happened to Global Warming promising more
precipitation?

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Last Post  
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 More options 4 Nov, 19:22
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment
From: Last Post <last_p...@primus.ca>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 11:22:38 -0800 (PST)
Local: Wed 4 Nov 2009 19:22
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast
On Nov 2, 5:09 pm, Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
wrote:

> http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/globalwarming/2009-11-02-kili...
>   "Kilimanjaro's famous icy peaks are thawing fast"
> Climate change could cause the legendary snow and ice atop Mount Kilimanjaro to
> disappear within the next 25 years, scientists report today in the journal
> Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

•• ROTFLMAO— Once again they say "could"
    not "will". There is also the chance that it would
    rebuild. A lot can change in 24 years

> For the first time in almost 12,000 years, based on ice-core analysis, Africa's
> highest peak probably will be ice-free as early as 2022 or as late as 2033, says
> glaciologist Lonnie Thompson of Ohio State University, who led the study.

> "Of the ice cover present in 1912," Thompson and his colleagues write in the
> paper, "85% has disappeared and 26% of that present in 2000 is now gone."

•• Was that peer reviewed?

––  ––
 
 In real science the burden of proof is always
 
 on the proposer, never on the sceptics. So far
 
 neither IPCC nor anyone else has provided one
 
 iota of valid data for global warming nor have
 
 they provided data that climate change is being
 
 effected by commerce and industry, and not by
  natural phenomena.


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Curly Surmudgeon  
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 More options 5 Nov, 08:18
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment
From: Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudg...@live.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 08:18:30 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Thurs 5 Nov 2009 08:18
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:27:15 -0500, T. Keating <tkuse...@ktcnslt.com>
wrote:

> "Retracting Glacier Impacts Economic Outlook in the Tropical Andes"

Bariloche, Mendoza, San Rafael and a bunch of smaller cities make up the
3rd largest metropolitan region of Argentina.  It's a desert and
dependent upon melting Andean run off.

Has been for thousands of years, prior to the Incas who are credited with
building the canals and terraces that actually preceded them.  The same
irrigation techniques are used today to grow some of the world's great
wines and other agriculture including cattle.

Water is drying up.

--
Regards, Curly
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---
              The Bible: Slavery Good, Gays Bad, Snakes Talk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---


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Curly Surmudgeon  
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 More options 5 Nov, 08:19
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment
From: Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudg...@live.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 08:19:20 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Thurs 5 Nov 2009 08:19
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 13:28:02 -0400, "I M @ good guy" <I...@good.guy> wrote:

ECUADOREXTN/0,,contentMDK:

>>"Large cities in the region are depending on glacial runoffs for their
>>water supply."
>>"Retracting Glacier Impacts Economic Outlook in the Tropical Andes"

>         What a crock, if there is no snow, the end is near,
> what happened to Global Warming promising more precipitation?

If you're that ignorant then I suggest educating yourself before
participating in a discussion so far over your head.

--
Regards, Curly
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---
              The Bible: Slavery Good, Gays Bad, Snakes Talk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---


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I M @ good guy  
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 More options 5 Nov, 08:53
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment
From: "I M @ good guy" <I...@good.guy>
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 04:53:11 -0400
Local: Thurs 5 Nov 2009 08:53
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast
On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 08:19:20 +0000 (UTC), Curly Surmudgeon

        If there is no snow, the end is near, is there some
reason glaciers would not be subject to the same reality
of physics?

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billynevada@gmail.com  
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 More options 7 Nov, 12:42
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment
From: "billynev...@gmail.com" <billynev...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 04:42:24 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat 7 Nov 2009 12:42
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast
On Nov 3, 9:11 pm, Zymrgy <zym...@gmail.com> wrote:

I always get a kick from the people who pee themselves over ice melt.
Not too long ago the very place I sit as I type this was under 5000
feet of ice. And I with out an hat. And as someone who can not swim, I
am deeply(that is a pun....just wait) concerned that in just a few
years this here spot will be under fathoms and fathoms of salt water
with widdle fishies screwing and pooping and swimming hither and yon
where once I planted a garden. fathom that.

If any yip-ity bitches want to shut themselves up - and they don't
because they are yip-ity bitches - just look up the amount of air
pollutants we get from volcanoes and yak farts /vs the amount of
pollutants we get from us. (breathe methane for a few days and get
back to me)

It's Earth. She's fine. It is we who will pass.
(there is empirical data that suggests there is a funny, sarcasticle
*next* line that ends in ass. the proof is left to the reader. ed.)


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leonard78sp@gmail.com  
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 More options 8 Nov, 23:04
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment
From: "leonard7...@gmail.com" <leonard7...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 15:04:16 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sun 8 Nov 2009 23:04
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast
On Nov 5, 3:53 am, "I M @ good guy" <I...@good.guy> wrote:

•• There is snow and since it is springtime in the
    Andes there is sure to be melting. There also
    are some active volcanoes in the region.

 — —
. In real science the burden of proof is always
. on the proposer, never on the sceptics. So far
. neither IPCC nor anyone else has provided one
. iota of valid data for global warming nor have
. they provided data that climate change is being
. effected by commerce and industry, and not by
.  natural phenomena.


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Discussion subject changed to "icy peaks are thawing fast?" by leonard78sp@gmail.com
leonard78sp@gmail.com  
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 More options 8 Nov, 23:11
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment
Follow-up To: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment
From: "leonard7...@gmail.com" <leonard7...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 15:11:30 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sun 8 Nov 2009 23:11
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast?
On Nov 7, 7:42 am, "billynev...@gmail.com" <billynev...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I always get a kick from the people who pee themselves over ice melt.
> Not too long ago the very place I sit as I type this was under 5000
> feet of ice. And I with out an hat. And as someone who can not swim, I
> am deeply(that is a pun....just wait) concerned that in just a few
> years this here spot will be under fathoms and fathoms of salt water
> with widdle fishies screwing and pooping and swimming hither and yon
> where once I planted a garden. fathom that.

•• Do not worry, billy, it is more likely that your
    garden will be under 5000 feet of ice once again.
    It will take a few thousand years, but don't concern
    yourself with the wait.

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Bill McKee  
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 More options 9 Nov, 05:37
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment
From: "Bill McKee" <bmckeespam...@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 21:37:01 -0800
Local: Mon 9 Nov 2009 05:37
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast?

<leonard7...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:2ebc12f9-dc3a-4be8-9769-8ad05ebd6aa9@m13g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 7, 7:42 am, "billynev...@gmail.com" <billynev...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I always get a kick from the people who pee themselves over ice melt.
> Not too long ago the very place I sit as I type this was under 5000
> feet of ice. And I with out an hat. And as someone who can not swim, I
> am deeply(that is a pun....just wait) concerned that in just a few
> years this here spot will be under fathoms and fathoms of salt water
> with widdle fishies screwing and pooping and swimming hither and yon
> where once I planted a garden. fathom that.

•• Do not worry, billy, it is more likely that your
    garden will be under 5000 feet of ice once again.
    It will take a few thousand years, but don't concern
    yourself with the wait.

Does not matter.  Mankind ends in 3.3 years.  2012 is it according to
Holleywood and others.


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Scott  
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 More options 9 Nov, 11:57
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment
From: "Scott" <nu...@bidneth.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 03:57:39 -0800
Local: Mon 9 Nov 2009 11:57
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast?

"Bill McKee" <bmckeespam...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message

news:7NSdna1UafDgN2rXnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@earthlink.com...

Yep, they been saying that for 2012 years...

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Bill McKee  
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 More options 9 Nov, 18:48
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment
From: "Bill McKee" <bmckeespam...@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 10:48:29 -0800
Local: Mon 9 Nov 2009 18:48
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast?

"Scott" <nu...@bidneth.com> wrote in message

news:XJCdnbNjmf5vnmXXnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@supernews.com...

Actually the Mayans were the ones forecasting 2012, and they said the last
epoc started 3011 BC or something like that.

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cavelamb  
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 More options 9 Nov, 20:20
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment
From: cavelamb <cavel...@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:20:37 -0600
Local: Mon 9 Nov 2009 20:20
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast?

Yep.

THEIR calendar ends 2012 - but the world ended for them a long time ago.


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leonard78sp@gmail.com  
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 More options 9 Nov, 22:38
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment
From: "leonard7...@gmail.com" <leonard7...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 14:38:41 -0800 (PST)
Local: Mon 9 Nov 2009 22:38
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast?
On Nov 9, 12:37 am, "Bill McKee" <bmckeespam...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

•• ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!

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Bill McKee  
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 More options 9 Nov, 22:49
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.global-warming, sci.environment
From: "Bill McKee" <bmckeespam...@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 14:49:34 -0800
Local: Mon 9 Nov 2009 22:49
Subject: Re: icy peaks are thawing fast?

"cavelamb" <cavel...@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:p62dnYruAek55GXXnZ2dnUVZ_uti4p2d@earthlink.com...

Their main culture ended a long time ago, actually not that long ago, but
seems as if a lot of the Mayan's I have seen in MX and Central America seem
to be living the same life.

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