It's not enough anymore to say He was a professor of Anglo-Saxon with a talent for writing. Even a cursory reading of His works shows that He was far, far more than that.
FATS research (for which we must particularly thank Dr. Engels) shows that TOLKIEN has existed in various guises for millennia; and recent studies suggest that He is pre-human--possibly even pre-vertebrate.
> FATS research (for which we must particularly thank Dr. Engels) shows > that TOLKIEN has existed in various guises for millennia; and recent > studies suggest that He is pre-human--possibly even pre-vertebrate.
> Was there ever when TOLKIEN is not?
Well, Humphrey Carpenter (another Lesser Saint!) writes - and we have no reason to doubt it - that Tolkien was born on January 3rd, 1892 in Bloemfontein, South Africa. The name of the town is Afrikaans and means "flower fountain" (German "Blumenfontäne", Latin "explosio florae") and reminds us of this blessed event. For when Tolkien was born, flowers sprung from the dry desert soil and danced merrily in the air.
He might have time-travelled back, though. Happens to me all the time.
> > FATS research (for which we must particularly thank Dr. Engels) shows > > that TOLKIEN has existed in various guises for millennia; and recent > > studies suggest that He is pre-human--possibly even pre-vertebrate.
> > Was there ever when TOLKIEN is not?
> Well, Humphrey Carpenter (another Lesser Saint!) writes - and we have > no reason to doubt it - that Tolkien was born on January 3rd, 1892 in > Bloemfontein, South Africa. The name of the town is Afrikaans and > means "flower fountain" (German "Blumenfontäne", Latin "explosio > florae") and reminds us of this blessed event. For when Tolkien was > born, flowers sprung from the dry desert soil and danced merrily in > the air.
> He might have time-travelled back, though. Happens to me all the time.
Carpenter is a liar and known Tolkien-hater, so I would take his word with a grain of salt in general.
That said, FATS has never denied that Tolkien was born in what we call anno Tolkieni 1.
But He clearly was born and lived many times and places before that. That's how it was that the Beowulf poet, Wagner, Gilgamesh, etc., were able to steal His stuff.
Pseudonymus al-Faqha'ter III set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum:
> But He clearly was born and lived many times and places before that. > That's how it was that the Beowulf poet, Wagner, Gilgamesh, etc., were > able to steal His stuff.
He *was* the Beowulf poet, he didn't have to steal anything. In a later incarnation he wrote "Sir Gawain", "Pearl" and the others, maintaining the alliterative tradition at a time when lesser lights (e.g. Chaucer) were moving on to write poetry in rhyme. "Piers Plowman" also? Only in the last century did he deem that the time was right for his ultimate source (the Red Book) to be published. -- ξ:) Proud to be curly
> Pseudonymus al-Faqha'ter III set the following eddies spiralling through the > space-time continuum:
> > But He clearly was born and lived many times and places before that. > > That's how it was that the Beowulf poet, Wagner, Gilgamesh, etc., were > > able to steal His stuff.
> He *was* the Beowulf poet, he didn't have to steal anything. In a later > incarnation he wrote "Sir Gawain", "Pearl" and the others, maintaining the > alliterative tradition at a time when lesser lights (e.g. Chaucer) were > moving on to write poetry in rhyme. "Piers Plowman" also? Only in the last > century did he deem that the time was right for his ultimate source (the > Red Book) to be published. > -- > ξ:) Proud to be curly
> Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
On Oct 25, 3:06 pm, Prai Jei <pvstownsend.zyx....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Pseudonymus al-Faqha'ter III set the following eddies spiralling through the > space-time continuum:
> > But He clearly was born and lived many times and places before that. > > That's how it was that the Beowulf poet, Wagner, Gilgamesh, etc., were > > able to steal His stuff.
> He *was* the Beowulf poet, he didn't have to steal anything. In a later > incarnation he wrote "Sir Gawain", "Pearl" and the others, maintaining the > alliterative tradition at a time when lesser lights (e.g. Chaucer) were > moving on to write poetry in rhyme. "Piers Plowman" also? Only in the last > century did he deem that the time was right for his ultimate source (the > Red Book) to be published.
I've discussed this with Baron Mörön Bogusz, the Head Librarian of the Forger Tolkien Library, and he says that Tolkien's eighth-century AD correspondence does indeed bear this out. My Anglo-Saxon wasn't good enough to detect it. He also says that Maya inscriptions name a certain Tol K'in as inventor of the cigar.
The annoying thing is that we'll have to change the numeration of Tolkien's letters. The current FATS edition runs from Letter 1 (about the nature of being, sent shortly before He was born) to Letter 255353756687909085757778335454657668793049586711057675773788999229948586877 890000112285857767883892922992928837766672223, sent some twenty years after His death. (He now communicates through MORAMBAR.) Now we'll have to find a numeration for all the other pre- natal letters. I think we'll have no choice but to start numbering backwards, in negative numbers.
Anyway, would you care to teach Palaeotolkienology at FATS?
> I think we'll have no choice but to start numbering > backwards, in negative numbers.
I see no problem. You have the entire complex plane to choose numbers from. The Professor may, all in all, have written a countably infinite numbers of letters; you still have an uncountably infinite number of numbers to choose from. Only if further research (which must by necessity be beyond my own meagre wits) indicates that the Professor wrote a transfinite number of letters do I see a potential problem.
> > I think we'll have no choice but to start numbering > > backwards, in negative numbers.
> I see no problem. You have the entire complex plane to choose numbers > from. The Professor may, all in all, have written a countably infinite > numbers of letters; you still have an uncountably infinite number of numbers > to choose from. Only if further research (which must by necessity be beyond > my own meagre wits) indicates that the Professor wrote a transfinite number > of letters do I see a potential problem.
Now I am wondering. If Tolkien lived in many incarnations, what would have stopped several incarnations from living at the same time? It would explain how Tolkien managed to write this magnificient amount of material.
I would guess that at least three Tolkiens were living during the 1930-1960 period, so that there was always one working on the books and letters, one sleeping, and one pleasing Edith. They probably worked in 8-hour shifts, then switched jobs. At least that's how I would organize it.
The real question is, of course, will we be able to find out who wrote which passages?
> Now I am wondering. If Tolkien lived in many incarnations, what would > have stopped several incarnations from living at the same time? It > would explain how Tolkien managed to write this magnificient amount of > material.
You put a novel and quite interesting suggestion.
> I would guess that at least three Tolkiens were living during the > 1930-1960 period, so that there was always one working on the books > and letters, one sleeping, and one pleasing Edith. They probably > worked in 8-hour shifts, then switched jobs. At least that's how I > would organize it.
I do not presume that a transfinite or uncountably infinite number of incarnations of the Professor lived either simultaneously or in total - though I am of course prepared to change my mind if solid research prove other. I can accept that a countably infinite number of them have - ie. a number that may be bijectively mapped onto the natural numbers. If each of them wrote a countably infinite number of letters then the total number of letters will still be countably infinite, thus removing the need for complex numbers to identify them. Though perhaps the letters may be identified by (m, i*n), where m and n are whole numbers, m denoting number of the letter written by the incarnation denoted by n. This would enable a mathematical treatment of this great material, needed by our intellectual faculties which are lesser than those of the Professor, who must surely have grasped the material directly without the need for mathematics.
> The real question is, of course, will we be able to find out who wrote > which passages?
Since all the incarnations were but aspects of the same, great mind, I suspect that this may be of lesser importance, unless research indicate that the Professor chose to write in manner influenced by the various incarnations. Certainly I would have so chosen, since it would be more fun.
> Since all the incarnations were but aspects of the same, great mind, I > suspect that this may be of lesser importance, unless research indicate that > the Professor chose to write in manner influenced by the various > incarnations. Certainly I would have so chosen, since it would be more fun.
According to Bogusz, Tolkien carried it even further, and actually incarnated Himself *within His own writings*, figuring in various roles, such as the Trojan horse, Don Juan de Tirsino, etc.; and some of these incarnations also wrote stuff. Yes, TOLKIEN had the power to *create a world and then incarnate Himself within it and then, though fictional, write things!*
>> Since all the incarnations were but aspects of the same, great mind, I >> suspect that this may be of lesser importance, unless research indicate >> that the Professor chose to write in manner influenced by the various >> incarnations. Certainly I would have so chosen, since it would be more >> fun. > According to Bogusz, Tolkien carried it even further, and actually > incarnated Himself *within His own writings*, figuring in various > roles, such as the Trojan horse, Don Juan de Tirsino, etc.; and some > of these incarnations also wrote stuff. Yes, TOLKIEN had the power to > *create a world and then incarnate Himself within it and then, though > fictional, write things!*
Hm. If this recurses far enough I can see a mechanism for how the Professor may have indeed written uncountably infinitely many letters.
> > According to Bogusz, Tolkien carried it even further, and actually > > incarnated Himself *within His own writings*, figuring in various > > roles, such as the Trojan horse, Don Juan de Tirsino, etc.; and some > > of these incarnations also wrote stuff. Yes, TOLKIEN had the power to > > *create a world and then incarnate Himself within it and then, though > > fictional, write things!*
> Hm. If this recurses far enough I can see a mechanism for how the > Professor may have indeed written uncountably infinitely many letters.
You make me slightly uneasy. How do you know we're on the top of that process, and not somewhere in the middle? Is it possible that we are all living in a fictional text, and that the Tolkien we know is only the literary construct of a Tolkien higher up in this recursion? And if yes, what is my page number?
>> Hm. If this recurses far enough I can see a mechanism for how the >> Professor may have indeed written uncountably infinitely many letters. > You make me slightly uneasy. How do you know we're on the top of that > process, and not somewhere in the middle? Is it possible that we are > all living in a fictional text, and that the Tolkien we know is only > the literary construct of a Tolkien higher up in this recursion? And > if yes, what is my page number?
Do you feel alive? If yes, cease to worry: you are. Then it does not matter if we are all fictional or real in the great game of fortassipsism.
> >> Hm. If this recurses far enough I can see a mechanism for how the > >> Professor may have indeed written uncountably infinitely many letters. > > You make me slightly uneasy. How do you know we're on the top of that > > process, and not somewhere in the middle? Is it possible that we are > > all living in a fictional text, and that the Tolkien we know is only > > the literary construct of a Tolkien higher up in this recursion? And > > if yes, what is my page number?
666?
> Do you feel alive? If yes, cease to worry: you are. Then it does not > matter if we are all fictional or real in the great game of fortassipsism.
Incidentally, Bogusz was ruminating to me today on the possibility that Tolkien might have written the Grand Canyon. "But diz iz nőt my area öf expertíz," he added modestly.
(Of course, we must remember that all these avatars of TOLKIEN are but manifestations of one Mind.
> You make me slightly uneasy. How do you know we're on the top of that > process, and not somewhere in the middle? Is it possible that we are > all living in a fictional text, and that the Tolkien we know is only > the literary construct of a Tolkien higher up in this recursion?
Or... would the Tolkiens in the Tolkien writings all KNOW that they are Tolkien? What if... Could *I* be Tolkien and simply NOT KNOW IT?! My name starts with a T too! I am Tolkien! It all makes sense know!
Pay 32767 guilders to FATS and I'll tell you what Tom Bombadil is.
On Nov 1, 5:48 am, "Taemon" <Tae...@zonnet.nl> wrote:
> Noel Q. von Schneiffel wrote:
> > You make me slightly uneasy. How do you know we're on the top of that > > process, and not somewhere in the middle? Is it possible that we are > > all living in a fictional text, and that the Tolkien we know is only > > the literary construct of a Tolkien higher up in this recursion?
> Or... would the Tolkiens in the Tolkien writings all KNOW that they are > Tolkien? What if... Could *I* be Tolkien and simply NOT KNOW IT?! My name > starts with a T too! I am Tolkien! It all makes sense know!
> Pay 32767 guilders to FATS and I'll tell you what Tom Bombadil is.
> T. (praise be Me!)
I don't think FATS can authorize belief in you as Tolkien without MORAMBAR's explicitly revealing it. After all, Troels or Tom Hook, or even Tom De Lay, might turn out to be the real thing -- although I suspect that, having achieved His pluri-existence's purpose by writing LOTR, TOLKIEN has moved on, leaving MORAMBAR as His representative on earth.
(Of course, if it turns out you ARE Tolkien, we will repent and punish ourselves by giving our Rolls-Royces to charity.)
FATS will, however, gladly accept the 32767 guilders. I don't know what that comes to in tollers; but every little bit helps our glorious Mission.
On 1 Nov., 11:48, "Taemon" <Tae...@zonnet.nl> wrote:
> Noel Q. von Schneiffel wrote:
> > You make me slightly uneasy. How do you know we're on the top of that > > process, and not somewhere in the middle? Is it possible that we are > > all living in a fictional text, and that the Tolkien we know is only > > the literary construct of a Tolkien higher up in this recursion?
> Or... would the Tolkiens in the Tolkien writings all KNOW that they are > Tolkien? What if... Could *I* be Tolkien and simply NOT KNOW IT?! My name > starts with a T too! I am Tolkien! It all makes sense know!
> Pay 32767 guilders to FATS and I'll tell you what Tom Bombadil is.
> T. (praise be Me!)
Can it be? Can this really be the answer to all our prayers? Quick! Take a test. Write a novella and see if your characters come alive and in turn write stuff. Then you must purchase a pipe and an ornamental waistcoat (or have your aunt knit one, if you want to save money) and post pictures of yourself to AFT. You also must beat up Peter Jackson to prove that you truly have the power.
In the meantime, I will start to do tongue gymnastics. I've become a bit rusty in bootlicking since Morambar disappeared, but you never unlearn it. I promise, once you posted the pictures and your exact address, you'll hear me slobbering towards you in no time!
<noel.von.schneif...@fats.teunc.org> wrote: > On 1 Nov., 11:48, "Taemon" <Tae...@zonnet.nl> wrote: > > Or... would the Tolkiens in the Tolkien writings all KNOW that they are > > Tolkien? What if... Could *I* be Tolkien and simply NOT KNOW IT?! My name > > starts with a T too! I am Tolkien! It all makes sense know!
> > Pay 32767 guilders to FATS and I'll tell you what Tom Bombadil is.
> > T. (praise be Me!)
> Can it be? Can this really be the answer to all our prayers? Quick! > Take a test. Write a novella and see if your characters come alive and > in turn write stuff. Then you must purchase a pipe and an ornamental > waistcoat (or have your aunt knit one, if you want to save money) and > post pictures of yourself to AFT. You also must beat up Peter Jackson > to prove that you truly have the power.
> In the meantime, I will start to do tongue gymnastics. I've become a > bit rusty in bootlicking since Morambar disappeared, but you never > unlearn it. I promise, once you posted the pictures and your exact > address, you'll hear me slobbering towards you in no time!
> Wow! This is a very exciting time.
I would be very cautious in accepting anyone's claim to be TOLKIEN. Anyway can say they're TOLKIEN; I could say it myself, if I felt like it and were a blasphemer.
The only sure way of recognising an avatar of TOLKIEN, or even of knowing whether He will produce any more avatars, is for MORAMBAR to tell us so.
Personally, I believe the last TOLKIEN was the seal of the TOLKIENs, and there will be no other, until the world end.
> On 1 Nov., 11:48, "Taemon" <Tae...@zonnet.nl> wrote: >> Or... would the Tolkiens in the Tolkien writings all KNOW that they >> are Tolkien? What if... Could *I* be Tolkien and simply NOT KNOW >> IT?! My name starts with a T too! I am Tolkien! It all makes sense >> now! > Can it be? Can this really be the answer to all our prayers? Quick! > Take a test. Write a novella and see if your characters come alive and > in turn write stuff.
Sorry, that took a while. I have finally managed to fend them off and send them to an inky grave. Pfew! You could have warned me, you know.
> Then you must purchase a pipe and an ornamental > waistcoat (or have your aunt knit one, if you want to save money) and > post pictures of yourself to AFT.
> > On 1 Nov., 11:48, "Taemon" <Tae...@zonnet.nl> wrote: > >> Or... would the Tolkiens in the Tolkien writings all KNOW that they > >> are Tolkien? What if... Could *I* be Tolkien and simply NOT KNOW > >> IT?! My name starts with a T too! I am Tolkien! It all makes sense > >> now! > > Can it be? Can this really be the answer to all our prayers? Quick! > > Take a test. Write a novella and see if your characters come alive and > > in turn write stuff.
> Sorry, that took a while. I have finally managed to fend them off and send > them to an inky grave. Pfew! You could have warned me, you know.
> > Then you must purchase a pipe and an ornamental > > waistcoat (or have your aunt knit one, if you want to save money) and > > post pictures of yourself to AFT.
I think that guy was in one of my classes, though. He even showed some promise, before he was nabbed by the Carpenterites. He was last seen founding a "school" called Holy Humprhey's Academy of Tolkien Studies (HATS). A sad loss.
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