Hi all,

I would very much like to see QM obtain TANDEM functionality.  It is
useful not only as a tool for support but as a tool for starting
phantom jobs.  Such phantom jobs do not even have to be set up
specially for phantom processing.  Some versions of TANDEM even use a
file like a $COMO file which captures the screen output, then plays it
back when one jumps back into that port.  It plays back until it
reaches the last screen and one can see what is printed on the last
screen.

Tandem is standard Pick functionality and I'd like to see it in QM.  I
have a whole utility in my 4GL devoted to phantom processing and
support using TANDEM and Prime/Universe phantoms just don't compare
either for phantom processing, where they require special set-ups, nor
for support, where they can't be used at all.

What does everyone else think?

Hi Paddy,

We have looked at TANDEM in the past. It would be possible for us to
implement part of the functionality in Linux but not without a great
deal of difficulty (if at all) in Windows.

Part of the problem is, we believe, that the architecture of D3 is
very different from QM. On Linux, subject to access rights, we could
copy all terminal output to a second device. Doing input to the
tandem'ed proccess may be much more difficult without major changes.

Yes, TANDEM is a great debugging tool and I would really love to see
it in QM but there are significant differences in how processes
operate that may make this very difficult. It is worth mentioning also
that we are aware of several financial organisations where the
auditors have insisted that TANDEM is disabled in other mv products
because of the security risk that it imposes. Any implementation in QM
would require a positive acknowledgement from the tandem'ed process
before the connection was established.

From our viewpoint, TANDEM has nothing to do with phantoms and there
should be no need for the two to work together. By definition, a
phantom is a process that runs in the background with no terminal
device.

I think also that the time may be coming to tactfully point out that
we have done several changes for you but, as far as I can see from a
quick check, you don't actually hold a commercial licence. Please
correct me if I am wrong.

Martin Phillips, Ladybridge Systems

Hi Martin,

I was and am willing to buy a licensed copy.  You're the one who
offered me the developer version, which I am actively headed towards
converting to.  There is a heavy learning curve and, until Tim Bristow
just happened to mention how to do some compiler options, I had little
hope of making 70% of my Pick code even compile on your system.  Yet I
write very clean code.  And I am interested in making that code run on
your system and selling such copies.  In fact, Tim and I are presently
discussing licensing arrangements for my two software products which
would be sold on QM in Europe.  However, I have always used things
like TANDEM (I have a whole phantom processing system designed around
TANDEM, despite your narrow definition of "phantoms"), SFORMS, B-
correlatives, etc. extensively in my software, and doing away with and/
or converting these is painful and limiting.  These have been parts of
the systems I've been using for about 20 years and it doesn't seem
like such a big thing to ask you to consider using them.  No one is
asking you to be a clone of anything.  If QM started out as a clone of
anything, it was Prime and uniVerse and I never asked you to do that.
For you to say that this is all part of some design strategy when many
of these "designs" come from Prime and UniVerse bewilders me.  I have
worked far too long with UniVerse not to see the resemblances and know
also that you and your group started as UniVerse consultants and
trainers.

As for TANDEM needing to have the user acknowledge and approve the
connection, the system could possibly check to see if the line was
attached to a process, and, if not, allow usage without asking for
permission.  This would allow TANDEM-style "phantoms".

As for D3, I don't really like it.  I like mvBase and mvEnterprise
better.  My code will run on both of those essentially without
alteration.  It will run on D3 only with some revisions, but
relatively minor ones.

Let's not fight Martin. I'm not trying to harrass you.  I like you and
your system, really, and we both have a lot to gain from this working
out.

With regards,

John Padden Racine
(Paddy)

On 30 Aug, 12:31, Martin Phillips <MartinPhill...@ladybridge.com>
wrote:

P.S. - I also wrote and tested complete Account Saves and Account
Restore programs (in Basic) in order to help users migrate to QM,
particularly, gratis, when yours would not work and you gave up trying
to make it work.

On 31 Aug, 08:45, Paddy <j...@purveyorsoftware.com> wrote:

Hi Paddy,

I was not complaining that you do not hold a "paid for" commercial
licence, only pointing out that we have already made several changes
for you as a holder of a developer licence.

The problem with TANDEM is not a reluctance to do it but a possible
technical problem caused by significant architectural differences
between QM and D3. These will need some investigation on our part. I
am personally a great believer in TANDEM as a diagnostic tool but the
positive acceptance by the monitored user is essential to maintain
proper system security.

I appreciate the work that you have done writing your own data
transfer tools. Quite why ours do not work for you is something that
needs further investigation. The media format appears to be
undocumented and we (or, at least, the user who did the work for us)
has needed to derive much of this by experiment.

Martin Phillips, Ladybridge Systems

I was used to Tandem for years coming from a Mentor/mvBASE background.

However, these days, we use logmein and logmeinrescue (www.logmein.com).
The basis being that almost everybody is using a PC as a client these days
so being able to remotely access the PC is akin to the old "Tandem"
functionality.  The PC needs access to the internet, but firewalls and the
like should not be an issue.

We remotely support all of our customerbase using this technology without
any issues.

Simon

Simon Verona.vcf 7K Download

It isn't realistic to pull the QM system apart (with the consequent
risk of bugs)  to support Tandem when VNC (virtual network computing)
provides the same capability with greater control.  The PC doesn't
need access to the internet itself, pretty well any network will do.
You ought to set up one to connect to QM anyway - it would be
masochistic to cobble up something else just to keep old RS232
terminals going.  With them out of the picture there is no real need
that I can see for "Tandem".

It is tedious migrating to a new system, and losing capabilities you
have used to their maximum can be annoying.  If Paddy has been using
Tandem in some very subtle manner - which I think might be the case -
I can understand his point of view.  It's to be hoped he finds QM's
pros outweigh its cons.

My own opinion is that there are many other things that Ladybridge
could do which will provide greater long-term benefit to us all.  SQL
and XML are the obvious candidates here - but, given the great results
so far, I'm happy to leave these decisions to Martin's judgement.

Regards, Keith

Hi Martin,

I realize that you have added some things for me, ones that will help
others as well.  And, like I've said I wrote the Account Save/Restore
programs for you.  I realize that they will work for all of the Pick
and Prime -style systems, but I'm planning to charge other people for
those but have given it to you for free.

As for Tandem, I really did not want to ask for Tandem strictly for my
benefit.  That is why I put it on the Forum, to see if there was a
significant desire for it among other application providers.  I did
not mean to give you a hard time.  Apparently, you have already heard
from others that it would benefit them.  I also want to reiterate that
it is not just a support tool but provides the means for starting
phantom jobs for almost any report or procedure, whether specifically
designed to be run in the background or not.

It sounds like the technical obstacles are impressive and that you
would put it on if you could.

I know, too, that if one has enough licenses or has those 4 logons on
one license that you've talked about, one could start up a process in
another PC window on the same machine and let it run.  That would
accomplish the same thing as running Tandem as a phantom.  (Tim
already told me about PC-bIases things like VNC for support issues and
they sound good.  I know support reps have used something like that
with me on occasion.)  I don't know what happens when one would log
off or shutdown the PC, though.  Would that continue to run?

On 2 Sep, 16:33, Martin Phillips <MartinPhill...@ladybridge.com>
wrote:

Hi Paddy,

Does "other people" mean other QM users or only other systems?

I do not currently have a copy of these tools as the last one you sent was
still in its development stages with a few little bugs.

Re TANDEM, I think that what we really need to understand is what you are
wanting to achieve with it. My impression from your emails is that you are
not using it for the diagnostic purposes for which it was intended but for
some other devious trick. There may be a better way for us to do this.

Martin Phillips
Ladybridge Systems Ltd
17b Coldstream Lane, Hardingstone, Northampton, NN4 6DB
+44-(0)1604-709200

I also would like to have TANDEM to see what happens on phantom line and
debugg them easily
--
Cordialement,
Cedric Fontaine
www.terroirsquebec.com

& blogs
www.terroirsquebec.com/blog
www.ste-catherine.ca/maville

&twit
www.twitter.com/CedricFontaine

not so sure why you need TANDEM to debug a phantom process.
typically, debugging is done BEFORE processing the APP as a phantom.
i've used the debugger in mvBASE and D3 on phantom processes, but the debugger is quite different in QM.
typically, i use the debugger in conjunction with the AccuTerm type xxx-at. even then, it's slow going compared to mvBASE and D3 debugging operations.
course, that's just me. i'm still learning and begging for more teaching the QM way.
good luck to all!
 
Steve Trimble
Computerized Data Mgmt Inc
PO Box 13403
Maumelle, AR 72113
(501) 803-0974 09:00am - 6:00pm CST
 
Home of self defense products: http://www.protecturself.com

I also would like to have TANDEM to see what happens on phantom line and
debugg them easily
--
Cordialement,
Cedric Fontaine
www.terroirsquebec.com

& blogs
www.terroirsquebec.com/blog
www.ste-catherine.ca/maville

&twit
www.twitter.com/CedricFontaine